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Saints and Psychopaths
by Chotahari Dasa
Psychopaths pretending to be saints present a very
serious problem for all spiritual traditions. There
are many more psychopaths pretending to be saints than
there are real saints. If you have a true saint for a
teacher, then you have a real possibility for
spiritual attainments, including enlightenment. If
your teacher is a psychopath, then you may become a
programmed puppet, and you risk being sexually or
financially abused. You
also may lose your job, family and possibly even your
sanity. Eventually you risk disillusionment from
pursuing any spiritual quests.
In his book, Saints and Psychopaths, William Hazlitt
gives a checklist of saintly and psychopathic
qualities. With some word changes so they fit better
within the frame of more common Krishna conscious
usage I include both lists below. In as much as
Prabhupada has cautioned in Sri Chaitanya Charitamrita
that there are mundane men in the dress of Vaishnavas
in the Krishna consciousness movement and that we
should practice upeksha and
“neglect” these persons, I thought it would be helpful
to post this checklist with the possibility that it
may help saragrahis to gain perspective on this aspect
of things.
Saints:
Are consistent in what they say, mean, and do.
Follow the moral standards they teach.
Keep promises.
Pay debts.
Hold truth as the highest standard.
Insists that their close associates tell the truth.
Present rational, unaggressive philosophy.
Are attractive but don't exploit others and ingrain
dependency.
Wait for you to seek their help.
Good reputation endures and improves.
Things turn out well in the long run.
People get long-term benefit from their association.
Are concerned about their actions on themselves and on
others.
Immediately apologize for errors.
Look for their own mistakes and will voluntarily make
amends.
If trapped do not renounce their principles.
Can sit very still.
Encourage associates to be self-reliant.
Refrain from using mind-dulling substances.
Are comfortable being in the background.
Psychopaths:
Are inconsistent in what they say, mean, and do.
Have different rules for themselves and for their
followers.
Break their promises.
Have bad debts, scheme to avoid paying, even write bad
checks.
Have no regard for the truth.
Will order close associates to lie.
Are aggressive with philosophy and may not try to
appeal to reason.
Are attractive and use it to exploit others and
ingrain dependency.
Come on with unsolicited advice.
Good reputation fades in time.
Things turn out badly in the long run.
People are damaged by long term association.
Are unconcerned about their actions on themselves and
on others.
Apologize as a last resort.
Ignore their own mistakes and rectify them only if
cornered.
If trapped will do or say whatever it takes to escape.
Typically have variable and exotic health problems.
Can sit still only when the center of attention.
Enslave those around them.
Often indulge in using mind-dulling substances.
Are obsessed with being in the limelight.
Hazlitt stresses that the person with only one or two
of these symptoms is not necessarily a psychopath, nor
is the occasional occurrence of these symptoms a
definite indicator of psychopathology. On the other
hand, if someone has several of them to a marked
degree we should not twist our
perceptions but should be decisive in avoiding them.
by Chotahari Dasa
Psychopaths pretending to be saints present a very
serious problem for all spiritual traditions. There
are many more psychopaths pretending to be saints than
there are real saints. If you have a true saint for a
teacher, then you have a real possibility for
spiritual attainments, including enlightenment. If
your teacher is a psychopath, then you may become a
programmed puppet, and you risk being sexually or
financially abused. You
also may lose your job, family and possibly even your
sanity. Eventually you risk disillusionment from
pursuing any spiritual quests.
In his book, Saints and Psychopaths, William Hazlitt
gives a checklist of saintly and psychopathic
qualities. With some word changes so they fit better
within the frame of more common Krishna conscious
usage I include both lists below. In as much as
Prabhupada has cautioned in Sri Chaitanya Charitamrita
that there are mundane men in the dress of Vaishnavas
in the Krishna consciousness movement and that we
should practice upeksha and
“neglect” these persons, I thought it would be helpful
to post this checklist with the possibility that it
may help saragrahis to gain perspective on this aspect
of things.
Saints:
Are consistent in what they say, mean, and do.
Follow the moral standards they teach.
Keep promises.
Pay debts.
Hold truth as the highest standard.
Insists that their close associates tell the truth.
Present rational, unaggressive philosophy.
Are attractive but don't exploit others and ingrain
dependency.
Wait for you to seek their help.
Good reputation endures and improves.
Things turn out well in the long run.
People get long-term benefit from their association.
Are concerned about their actions on themselves and on
others.
Immediately apologize for errors.
Look for their own mistakes and will voluntarily make
amends.
If trapped do not renounce their principles.
Can sit very still.
Encourage associates to be self-reliant.
Refrain from using mind-dulling substances.
Are comfortable being in the background.
Psychopaths:
Are inconsistent in what they say, mean, and do.
Have different rules for themselves and for their
followers.
Break their promises.
Have bad debts, scheme to avoid paying, even write bad
checks.
Have no regard for the truth.
Will order close associates to lie.
Are aggressive with philosophy and may not try to
appeal to reason.
Are attractive and use it to exploit others and
ingrain dependency.
Come on with unsolicited advice.
Good reputation fades in time.
Things turn out badly in the long run.
People are damaged by long term association.
Are unconcerned about their actions on themselves and
on others.
Apologize as a last resort.
Ignore their own mistakes and rectify them only if
cornered.
If trapped will do or say whatever it takes to escape.
Typically have variable and exotic health problems.
Can sit still only when the center of attention.
Enslave those around them.
Often indulge in using mind-dulling substances.
Are obsessed with being in the limelight.
Hazlitt stresses that the person with only one or two
of these symptoms is not necessarily a psychopath, nor
is the occasional occurrence of these symptoms a
definite indicator of psychopathology. On the other
hand, if someone has several of them to a marked
degree we should not twist our
perceptions but should be decisive in avoiding them.
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Re: Saints and psychopaths
Thu, January 19, 2006 - 6:11 PMA saint thinks of Krishna all the time and does everything for Him.
"Abandon all varieties of religion and surrender unto Me. I will protect you from all sinful reactions do not fear."Bhagavad-Gita
A psycho thinks he is his body, and therefore 99.9% of the population fall into this category. -
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Re: Saints and psychopaths
Wed, January 25, 2006 - 9:58 AMAren't Saint's just Sinner's who kept on trying?? -
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Re: Saints and psychopaths
Sun, February 5, 2006 - 12:13 PMUltimately Krshna Liberates us all!~We belong to Him! -
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Re: Saints and psychopaths
Tue, May 23, 2006 - 10:45 AMpsyche=soul, pathology=study of disease. A psycho path is an individual with a soul disease. Materialism and ignorance of death are the symptoms, and by that definition we are all to some degree afflicted.
The Gaudiya Vaisnava acharyas and the scriptures that are their gift to us delineate three main symptoms to watch for. Kanak =inordinate accumulation of wealth. kamani =unlawful woman love, (lust) and pratishta= the desire for name and fame. These negative qualities come to attack the jiva seeking release from maya's clutches. Sometimes in the life of devotees we see that thier condition becomes worse and it may be that Krsna is bringing thier karma to a head. Teachers who are non-devotees and are lacking in sukrti (pious merit), faith and devotion are wholly in the saguna or materially conditioned category and ultimately cannot be trusted however wholesome they may appear at present. Their guidance may lead to heaven but when punya is exhausted the soul falls again in the viscious cycle of pap and prayaschita (sin and attonement) Without the substantial conscious connection through a genuine vaisnava all they can offer is some material punya (temporary relief) at best. On the other hand even a "fallen" devotee is better situated than this because even though his personal life may be disorderly or even sinful, if his heart is pointed toward the True Reality of Krsna, he has connected with the wholesale cure, and his future is bright. We are warned in the Gita:
api cet suduracharo, bhajate mam ananya bhak, sadhur eva sa mantavyah, samyag vyavasito hi sa
"Even if one commits the most abominable actions, if he is engaged in devotional service, he is to be considered saintly, because he is properly situated."
Ksipram bahvati dharmatma, sasvac chantim nigachati, kaunteya pratijanihi, na me bhakta pranashyati
"He quickly becomes righteous and attains lasting peace. Oh son of Kunti, declare it boldly that my devotee never perishes."
Because devotees are embracing a revolutionary mode of life (sarva dharman parit yajya)- gita 18.66 there may be an abrupt upsurge of karmic reactions. However, thier connection with Reality will draw them out successfully.
The Srimad Bhagavatam gives a description of a genuine saint:
titikshava karunika, suridah sarva dehinam, ajatah satravah shanta, sadavah sadhu bhushana
'The symptoms of a sadhu are that he is tolerant, merciful and friendly to all living beings. He has no enemies, he is peaceful. He abides by the scriptures, and all his characteristics are sublime". Bgvtm 3.25.21
I like what Wendy said: "aren't saints just sinners who kept on trying?" sincerity is the bottom line. For seeker and teacher as well. Or as Lord Krsna says: na hi kalyana krt kashid durgatim tata gachati.... "One who does good my friend is never overcome by evil". The sincere are unstoppable. -
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Re: Saints and psychopaths
Tue, May 23, 2006 - 12:30 PMThis article is quite similar to Chapter 16 of Bhagavad Gita entitled the Divine and Demoniac Natures. Here are just the verses:
"The Blessed Lord said: Fearlessness, purification of one's existence, cultivation of spiritual knowledge, charity, self-control, performance of sacrifice, study of the Vedas, austerity and simplicity; nonviolence, truthfulness, freedom from anger; renunciation, tranquillity, aversion to faultfinding, compassion and freedom from covetousness; gentleness, modesty and steady determination; vigor, forgiveness, fortitude, cleanliness, freedom from envy and the passion for honor--these transcendental qualities, O son of Bharata, belong to godly men endowed with divine nature.
Arrogance, pride, anger, conceit, harshness and ignorance--these qualities belong to those of demoniac nature, O son of Prtha.
The transcendental qualities are conducive to liberation, whereas the demoniac qualities make for bondage. Do not worry, O son of Pandu, for you are born with the divine qualities.
O son of Prtha, in this world there are two kinds of created beings. One is called the divine and the other demoniac. I have already explained to you at length the divine qualities. Now hear from Me of the demoniac.
Those who are demoniac do not know what is to be done and what is not to be done. Neither cleanliness nor proper behavior nor truth is found in them.
They say that this world is unreal, that there is no foundation and that there is no God in control. It is produced of sex desire, and has no cause other than lust.
Following such conclusions, the demoniac, who are lost to themselves and who have no intelligence, engage in unbeneficial, horrible works meant to destroy the world.
The demoniac, taking shelter of insatiable lust, pride and false prestige, and being thus illusioned, are always sworn to unclean work, attracted by the impermanent.
They believe that to gratify the senses unto the end of life is the prime necessity of human civilization. Thus there is no end to their anxiety. Bound by hundreds and thousands of desires, by lust and anger, they secure money by illegal means for sense gratification.
The demoniac person thinks: "So much wealth do I have today, and I will gain more according to my schemes. So much is mine now, and it will increase in the future, more and more. He is my enemy, and I have killed him; and my other enemies will also be killed. I am the lord of everything. I am the enjoyer. I am perfect, powerful and happy. I am the richest man, surrounded by aristocratic relatives. There is none so powerful and happy as I am. I shall perform sacrifices, I shall give some charity, and thus I shall rejoice." In this way, such persons are deluded by ignorance.
Thus perplexed by various anxieties and bound by a network of illusions, one becomes too strongly attached to sense enjoyment and falls down into hell.
Self-complacent and always impudent, deluded by wealth and false prestige, they sometimes perform sacrifices in name only, without following any rules or regulations.
Bewildered by false ego, strength, pride, lust and anger, the demon becomes envious of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is situated in his own body and in the bodies of others, and blaspheme against the real religion.
Those who are envious and mischievous, who are the lowest among men, are cast by Me into the ocean of material existence, into various demoniac species of life.
Attaining repeated birth amongst the species of demoniac life, such persons can never approach Me. Gradually they sink down to the most abominable type of existence.
There are three gates leading to this hell--lust, anger and greed. Every sane man should give these up, for they lead to the degradation of the soul.
The man who has escaped these three gates of hell, O son of Kunti, performs acts conducive to self-realization and thus gradually attains the supreme destination.
But he who discards scriptural injunctions and acts according to his own whims attains neither perfection, nor happiness, nor the supreme destination.
One should understand what is duty and what is not duty by the regulations of the scriptures. Knowing such rules and regulations, one should act so that he may gradually be elevated."
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