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I KNOW I am a sinner so how can Krsna save me? Are you devotees the rightious? And If you are rightious why do you need a savior? It is the lost that needs salvation right?
I am confused...
Seems to me that Krsna is useless.
I used t believe but after I read that in the gita it all fell apart for me. I think Jesus is the way he was all about the lost and needy and really hated the religious self rightious people. How does the vedic lit reconcile the difference bettween reincarnation and resurection. If jusus was just an incarnation of krsna as were all other avators WHY do the leaders of the world religions teach such different ideas?????
So if Krsna came to condem the sinners what hope does an imperfect sinner like my self have?
Jesus?
I am confused...
Seems to me that Krsna is useless.
I used t believe but after I read that in the gita it all fell apart for me. I think Jesus is the way he was all about the lost and needy and really hated the religious self rightious people. How does the vedic lit reconcile the difference bettween reincarnation and resurection. If jusus was just an incarnation of krsna as were all other avators WHY do the leaders of the world religions teach such different ideas?????
So if Krsna came to condem the sinners what hope does an imperfect sinner like my self have?
Jesus?
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Re: Krsna Came to save the rightious and condem the sinners?
Thu, July 21, 2005 - 7:28 PMIt seems that you are quoting this verse
"""Chapter 4: Transcendental Knowledge
Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Bhagavad-gītā As It Is 4.8
paritrāṇāya sādhūnāḿ
vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām
dharma-saḿsthāpanārthāya
sambhavāmi yuge yuge
SYNONYMS
paritrāṇāya — for the deliverance; sādhūnām — of the devotees; vināśāya — for the annihilation; ca — and; duṣkṛtām — of the miscreants; dharma — principles of religion; saḿsthāpana-arthāya — to reestablish; sambhavāmi — I do appear; yuge — millennium; yuge — after millennium.
TRANSLATION
To deliver the pious and to annihilate the miscreants, as well as to reestablish the principles of religion, I Myself appear, millennium after millennium.
PURPORT
According to Bhagavad-gītā, a sādhu (holy man) is a man in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. A person may appear to be irreligious, but if he has the qualifications of Kṛṣṇa consciousness wholly and fully, he is to be understood to be a sādhu. And duṣkṛtām applies to those who do not care for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Such miscreants, or duṣkṛtām, are described as foolish and the lowest of mankind, even though they may be decorated with mundane education, whereas a person who is one hundred percent engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is accepted as a sādhu, even though such a person may be neither learned nor well cultured. As far as the atheistic are concerned, it is not necessary for the Supreme Lord to appear as He is to destroy them, as He did with the demons Rāvaṇa and Kaḿsa. The Lord has many agents who are quite competent to vanquish demons. But the Lord especially descends to appease His unalloyed devotees, who are always harassed by the demoniac. The demon harasses the devotee, even though the latter may happen to be his kin. Although Prahlāda Mahārāja was the son of Hiraṇyakaśipu, he was nonetheless persecuted by his father; although Devakī, the mother of Kṛṣṇa, was the sister of Kaḿsa, she and her husband Vasudeva were persecuted only because Kṛṣṇa was to be born of them. So Lord Kṛṣṇa appeared primarily to deliver Devakī, rather than kill Kaḿsa, but both were performed simultaneously. Therefore it is said here that to deliver the devotee and vanquish the demon miscreants, the Lord appears in different incarnations.
In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta of Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja, the following verses (Madhya 20.263-264) summarize these principles of incarnation:
sṛṣṭi-hetu yei mūrti prapañce avatare
sei īśvara-mūrti 'avatāra' nāma dhare
māyātīta paravyome sabāra avasthāna
viśve avatari' dhare 'avatāra' nāma
"The avatāra, or incarnation of Godhead, descends from the kingdom of God for material manifestation. And the particular form of the Personality of Godhead who so descends is called an incarnation, or avatāra. Such incarnations are situated in the spiritual world, the kingdom of God. When they descend to the material creation, they assume the name avatāra."
There are various kinds of avatāras, such as puruṣāvatāras, guṇāvatāras, līlāvatāras, śakty-āveśa avatāras, manvantara-avatāras and yugāvatāras — all appearing on schedule all over the universe. But Lord Kṛṣṇa is the primeval Lord, the fountainhead of all avatāras. Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa descends for the specific purpose of mitigating the anxieties of the pure devotees, who are very anxious to see Him in His original Vṛndāvana pastimes. Therefore, the prime purpose of the Kṛṣṇa avatāra is to satisfy His unalloyed devotees.
The Lord says that He incarnates Himself in every millennium. This indicates that He incarnates also in the Age of Kali. As stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the incarnation in the Age of Kali is Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, who spread the worship of Kṛṣṇa by the sańkīrtana movement (congregational chanting of the holy names) and spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness throughout India. He predicted that this culture of sańkīrtana would be broadcast all over the world, from town to town and village to village. Lord Caitanya as the incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, the Personality of Godhead, is described secretly but not directly in the confidential parts of the revealed scriptures, such as the Upaniṣads, Mahābhārata and Bhāgavatam. The devotees of Lord Kṛṣṇa are very much attracted by the sańkīrtana movement of Lord Caitanya. This avatāra of the Lord does not kill the miscreants, but delivers them by His causeless mercy."""
I think you will find the last part of the quote informative
"The devotees of Lord Kṛṣṇa are very much attracted by the sańkīrtana movement of Lord Caitanya. This avatāra of the Lord does not kill the miscreants, but delivers them by His causeless mercy."
I suggest reading Gita in a translation that comes from a discipic sucession which is Krishna suggestion given in the same chapter.
"""Bhagavad-gītā As It Is 4.2
evaḿ paramparā-prāptam
imaḿ rājarṣayo viduḥ
sa kāleneha mahatā
yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa
SYNONYMS
evam — thus; paramparā — by disciplic succession; prāptam — received; imam — this science; rāja-ṛṣayaḥ — the saintly kings; viduḥ — understood; saḥ — that knowledge; kālena — in the course of time; iha — in this world; mahatā — great; yogaḥ — the science of one's relationship with the Supreme; naṣṭaḥ — scattered; parantapa — O Arjuna, subduer of the enemies.
TRANSLATION
This supreme science was thus received through the chain of disciplic succession, and the saintly kings understood it in that way. But in course of time the succession was broken, and therefore the science as it is appears to be lost.
PURPORT
It is clearly stated that the Gītā was especially meant for the saintly kings because they were to execute its purpose in ruling over the citizens. Certainly Bhagavad-gītā was never meant for the demonic persons, who would dissipate its value for no one's benefit and would devise all types of interpretations according to personal whims. As soon as the original purpose was scattered by the motives of the unscrupulous commentators, there arose the need to reestablish the disciplic succession. Five thousand years ago it was detected by the Lord Himself that the disciplic succession was broken, and therefore He declared that the purpose of the Gītā appeared to be lost. In the same way, at the present moment also there are so many editions of the Gītā (especially in English), but almost all of them are not according to authorized disciplic succession. There are innumerable interpretations rendered by different mundane scholars, but almost all of them do not accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, although they make a good business on the words of Śrī Kṛṣṇa. This spirit is demonic, because demons do not believe in God but simply enjoy the property of the Supreme. Since there is a great need of an edition of the Gītā in English, as it is received by the paramparā (disciplic succession) system, an attempt is made herewith to fulfill this great want. Bhagavad-gītā — accepted as it is — is a great boon to humanity; but if it is accepted as a treatise of philosophical speculations, it is simply a waste of time."""
"How does the vedic lit reconcile the difference bettween reincarnation and resurection." I am not understanding you on this question, maybe you can can clarify.
"If jusus was just an incarnation of krsna as were all other avators WHY do the leaders of the world religions teach such different ideas????? " this one too, I don't what are the different ideas that you are speaking about? If you question is regarding as to why different religions speak different things then I think the verse I quoted applies directly. Krishna comes to dharma samstaparnarthaya, to reestablish spiritual discipline sometimes he comes Himself or sometimes he sends His representative, such as Jesus, and teaches according to Kala, Desa, Patra, (time place and circumstance) the eternal religion of devotional service.
What hope to we have. well than is given in this verse bhagavadgitaasitis.com/18/66/en and many others.
And even more so Krishna most recent incarnation as Lord Caitanya does not even ask for such surrender but simply request one to chant the holy name, Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare. It is understood that if one chants the holy name of the Lord once sincerely then one will eliminate more previous karma than one can commit in one lifetime.
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Re: Krsna Came to save the rightious and condem the sinners?
Sat, July 23, 2005 - 10:30 PMI followed this like you gave as proof that krishna saves : Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear. THIS IS YOUR ANSWER? Plewase I am speaking of eternal salvation from judgment eternal damnation and punishment. NOT to be delivered from sinful reactions: what does that mean anyway? Im talking about salvation from the wrath of a HOLLY job that can not tolerate anything less than perfection and MUST punish the wicked IF there were no eternal separation from God and punishment then God would not be fair and just. So lets say there is a real punishment for sinners. Then how could God be forever loving and kind and gracious and merciful if he did not provide a way out?
IM TALKING ABOUT SALVATION FROM HELL HERE PEOPLE!
Not some sinful reaction. The Bible is the ONLY Holy bood that even addresses this and provides a way out the same God that MUST punish sin PAYS the price HIMSELF proving that HE is at ONCE BOTH JUST and LOVING, As God must be. What kind of God would condemn his children to life after life of suffering and misery to only let in those that proved themselves to have perfected themselfs? ANd what happens to the wicked? Please dont post some long scholerly translation from some dusty old book that only the educated and wise would even be able to comprehend. THERE MUST BE A WAY TO GOD THAT EVEN A CHILD OR A SIMPLETON COULD GRASP and the worst sinner alive could make, if not then God is proved to be unjust! -
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Re: Krsna Came to save the rightious and condem the sinners?
Sat, July 23, 2005 - 11:05 PMIt seems that you are here to fish. I CAN ALSO WRITE IN CAPS TOO. Here is a nice post maybe you could answer
I posted this on crossroads of religion tribe with no good answers maybe you could help me out I have yet to see an intellegent answer Christian answer.
April 25, 2005 - 02:04 PM
Frailities of the born soul, God & hell paradigm
why place an living creature to suffer as a baby? then die? if the answer is that ' oh but he will go to heaven so don't even question' Why can't God have that born soul take birth in Heaven.
Why should a soul that lived 67.5 year suffer eternalllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllly for those actions of 67.5 years.
I would forgive a person no matter how horrible his crimes where, say after 50000 years. Would not God be of such greater character than me! Would he not only allow, as a perfect manager, perfect LOrd, Father , would he not allow one to suffer ONLY per action performed=. Karma. No one yet in the western thiestic (born soul paradigm) traditions have been to tackle this issue. (Innocent suffering) Please give some answers or consider other philosophies that can deal with this question. -
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Seems like you have issues with accepting Gods forgiveness
Sun, July 24, 2005 - 12:21 AMIm sorry that I wrot in caps. I am NOT here to fish I am seeking an honest answer. Who will save the sinner? It seems that Krishna just eliminates the sinner never to be seen again poof gone no more. Is this punishment? I think not. Non being would be nothing, nonexistance is the wages of sin? Who cares if I live a life of wickedness and hurt everone around me and then im just extinguesed where is the justice?/ So then Hitler is just no more? He does not have to pay for his crimes? And the child molester and child killer is just put out like a flame after death? Where is the justice?
I will try to answer your question and do it without pasting in a huge chunk of biblical scriptures:
why place an living creature to suffer as a baby? then die? if the answer is that ' oh but he will go to heaven so don't even question' Why can't God have that born soul take birth in Heaven.
I dont really know. Why is the sky blue?
Perhaps God must use this earth a a proving ground to demonstate His justice and mercy for some reason we could never understand?
It is said that the Angels look at us and our lives here and learn of God and his ways.
I dont like babies to die and suffer either But perhaps we are all part of a Grand demonstation of God nature.
It seems that God was Chalenged by One of His most High Angels and one third of His angels follwed this Most high angel into rebelion and exercised their free will to rebel and make war with God. It seems from the Bible that God was and is chalenged By satan to prove that He is BOTH Just AND mercifull. The qoestion or chalange put to God seems to be this: How can you condemn me and my followers to be separate from you as punishment for our rebelion AND be as you claim an ALL loving father God????
And all the angels good and bad sort of say: Hmmmmm good point... So what do you say boss?
So God puts on this whole manifestation and populates it with self willed people with the freedom to choose God or separate them selfs from Him. Then He demonstates that HE CAN Be a Just GOD and punish and separate the wiked forever AND be loving and merciful by PAYING the price HIMSELF and taking on the punishment HImself and making a way back to ANYONE that will simply humble themself. I dont know Just what I heard.
Why should a soul that lived 67.5 year suffer eternalllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllly for those actions of 67.5 years.
Again you ask the unaswerable...
I dont know why. Why should A person live for say 23 years and enjoy paradise and Gods LOVE EternalLLLLLLLLLLLLLLy I just dont Know I just read in the Bible That One can if one believes.. Seems like a good deal right?
Are you the one with the issue about living 67.5 years? I feel you are that age and reject Jesus because you think he wants to make you suffer when he died so you would not have to EVER.
I think it is a matter of free will. The idea of reincarnation appeals to you because you can just do as you wish and allways have a second and 1008 more chances to avoid being accountable for your deeds? When in the Bible God says that He will forgive you and anyone of anything. In one second he will wash away any sin and give you eternal Bliss and life and eternal life with HIm.
Seems like you have issues with accepting Gods forgiveness and not something unfair about Gods offer of redemtion. Sorry.
I would forgive a person no matter how horrible his crimes where, say after 50000 years. Would not God be of such greater character than me! Would he not only allow, as a perfect manager, perfect LOrd, Father , would he not allow one to suffer ONLY per action performed=. Karma. No one yet in the western thiestic (born soul paradigm) traditions have been to tackle this issue. (Innocent suffering) Please give some answers or consider other philosophies that can deal with this question.
So you would forgive Hitler after such a short time? WOW you are a very kind and loving man pat yourself on the back and take your seat at Gods right hand Move over Jesus.
I would have to say that You are just BETTER than god.
You seem to have the same issues about Gods love and forgiveness. He does not condemn anyone for any thing. The only way one can become separated from God and end up in Eternal damnation is by rejecting Gods plan of redemption and rejecting Jesus and his work on the cross. So it is not a one to one punishment thing. Even Hitler is in hell for one reason alone because he rejescted Jesus and his death on the cross.
Im just telling you what the Bible says abut all this I have no philosophies or anything. People have the choice to reject God and separate themselfs or to accept His forgiveness and end up with Him forever. If it makes you feel better to chant Hare Krishna untill your mind turns off so you dont have to ponder this then fine. And if your hope lies in a million lives to work off your sins and somehow earn your way into some garden where krishna plays or whatever the good luck.
But I see a sad 67.5 year old man that has been chanting and eating no meat and dancing around idols so long that he is just plain angry and bitter. And this is what I have seen one gets from the Vedis philosophies.
23 years ago I saw a happy young surfer kid enter the Krishna Temple looking for love and God. ow today he is there older skinnier bald and dressing up and feeding a group of dolls he dances and chante to these dolls each day. I look at this old man and see nothing in his life that is worthy or even close to happiness or peace. H ahs never known life or the love of a godly woman or the love of his family that must miss him. I just see an old man that has no hope or real relationship to God or the LIFE that comes from living in the world and reaching other lost and hurting people with the LOVE of God. Just an old man washing and dressing lifeless statues in a temple.
But In the church I have seen the opposte. I have seen ruiend lives restroed and made whole. I have seen the walking dead make alive and filled with love and hope and seen people that lived for drugs sex and sin live for the real relationship thy have with the God that need no statues to speak to one heart or to remind one to think of Him. No Jesus is real and he lives in them they dont have to bow domen to dead dolls and serve a statue He is alive and real in thier lifes.
Sorry that you are a doll worshiper now I see why you are so hopeless and angry. You worship a doll that never speaks it must be like dirt in your mouth after so uch devotion to worship stone. Try the living God and then see if your Questions will not be anwsered have you ever even tried or humbled your self?????
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Re: Seems like you have issues with accepting Gods forgiveness
Sun, July 24, 2005 - 7:54 AMdoes such a sincere seeker send private messages calling one a 'jack ass'? -
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Re: Seems like you have issues with accepting Gods forgiveness
Sun, July 24, 2005 - 5:09 PMYes when the one it was sent to IS A HUGE JACK ASS. I also posted it in the forum for all to see You rascal . -
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Re: Seems like you have issues with accepting Gods forgiveness
Mon, July 25, 2005 - 12:21 PMnityananda ram prabhu, please dont even dignify this troll with ur time. it is obvious by his uncontrolled, emotional responses that he is a very angry individual, we are vaisnava and must rise above the ignorance of matter. he can hardly string 2 sentences together consecutively. dont get me started on his grammar. i digress.
he keeps saying jesus is another form of krishna y the contradiction bla bla bla. 1ST OF ALL JESUS IS SAKTYAVESA AVATAR (parial form- NOT COMPLETE) whereas krsna is purna shaktiman (full) jesus himself tells his disciples that there is much he has not yet told them.
reincarnation exists as a chance/mercy/love of god so we DONT suffer eternally, mind u this can only be understood by those who are a little analytical and have a discerning mind. i understand it is high subject matter greg, but u have not grasped anything about vedic literature.
i repeat (although i do realize it will fall on deaf ears) krsna doesnt come to condemn the sinners (this sounds like some southern baptist christian thing, WE DONT THINK OR ACT LIKE THAT its not about hell n damnation- we dont have these fear factors). krsna is about love and he loves us n just wants us to love him back. that is all u have to understand. but i think christianity is better suited to u greg. so go live once and enjoy. just leave us out of ur baggage. some of us are happy functionning and loving individuals who enrich society as a whole. and this? because of krsna.
FYI, i aint no skinny old man waiting to die eatin fruits. i am young, vibrant, jubiliant and beautiful and eat all kinds of deliscious foods, and enjoy life thru my service to krsna. amen babe. -
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AND ONE HUGE EGO! WOW what an self loving fool!
Mon, July 25, 2005 - 4:30 PMThen Tell me this IF there is no after life and PUNISHMENT for SIN... WHY did God in All of HIs fullness decide he MUST come to earth as aman AND sacrifice HIS own LIfe to make a way to atonement At One Ment for Sin. And dont make a bigger fool of your self and say Jesus was Murdered He died willingly IT WAS HIS MISSION. I await your answer and I realize you have none. AND please dont resort to foolish refferences to idiotic web pages that prove nothing but the fact that you have no conscience or accountability and only listen to whatever tickles your sinful ears. I am still waiting for ANYONE of you so called Holy men or Monks to even attempt to answer aqny of my sinsire Questions. I answered all of your silly questions. Such as Wht should a man pay for eternity for a life of 67.5 years? Wow what a fool you prove your self to be!!!!!!
You seem to think that eternity is a LONG LONG LONG time!!!! God and the spiritual world is OUTSIDE OF TIME you ignorant egomaniac!!!!!! He sees all of time there is no time dimention in the spiritual you fool.
And you call your self spirtual??? I have to laugh!!!!!
Reincarnation HA I hope so for your sake but the realioty is this once youe leave your one and only body you have no mass and no time you are spirit. You do not transmigrate from body to body as the stupid diagrams from ISKCON try to show. You are born into a babys body and you grow into a child and into adult and then Your same body grows old and dies you don not have many bodies and your spirit jumps from stage to stage your one and only body changesa then you leave it and go to the spirit realm. So what proof do you have that your spirit will somehow transmigrate to a different body after death?????
I wish some one other thab this JACKASS that is pretending to be wise and spiritual would speack up! But I KNOW fromexperience that you curry eating brainwashed chanting hypnomaniacs are all brain dead and want to belive that you are not held accountable for your actions in this life and go on life after life until you somehow get it right and end up in Krishnas garden to play and dance all the day long. You waste you time playing worship with dolls in your temples while living PEOPLE are suffering and give it no thought!
Youe god tells you to be impassionate? The TRUE GOD LOVES.
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we are vaisnava and must rise above the ignorance of matter.
Mon, July 25, 2005 - 4:39 PMWOW! EGO still ruels this pretenters life !!!!
I may agree that Krishna was an avator for his time and place BUT your ignorant ideas about God are stupid! God the Father Came in the fullness of the Godhead IN Christ Jesus and fulfilled all of the predictions that werefortold for thousands of years. He came Much later that your Blue cowboy and Did what was needed to pay the Price for Sin. He DIED for you and me all of us because it had to be done. Crime MUST be punished. Why would you believe that God would be unjust? But my point and the main point is this He is JUST and Loving so he MUST punish wrong and because he loved us while we were still sinners he died and PAID the price for us. It is a free gift of love that can be taken or rejected. You monks REJECT the latest incarnation of God and look to an ancient incarnation because it is hip and less demanding you want to believe you are special and can earn your way to God and CANT humble your of so special holy \vaisnava self yo condem your self! And your big fat ego proves it for me.
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NO I DONT SAY JESUS IS SOME FORM OF KRISHNA YOU DO!!!
Mon, July 25, 2005 - 5:02 PMI dont for a minute think Jesus is a form Of Krishna. This is Your Ideas and false ones at that! There is no evidence that Krishna ever walked this earth he is pure MYTH!
But I used your argument and you try to turn it back on me! Ha! Jesus Is God in all oF HIs fulness the Triune Godhead in an human Incarnation. You say :krsna doesnt come to condemn the sinners But YOUR OWN BOOK YOUR SCRIPTURES PLAINLY CLEARLY STATE THAT HE DOES COME TO EXTERMNATE SINNERS!!!!! IN CONTRAST JESUS SAID HE CAME TO CALL SINNERS TO REPENTANCE!!! HE CAME TO SAVE THE SINFUL THAT WOULD REPENT {TURN AROUND AND GO IN A NEW DIRECTION} AND MAKE THE WAY TO GOD AVAILABLE!!!
YOU MUST BE BRAINWASHED OR NEVER EVEN READ ANYTHING OTHER THAT THE GITA.
I can see from your reactions that Biblical truth does not appeal to your ego I mean a big Holy MOnk such as your self could not be bothered with the Latest incarnation OF GOD. You condem your self by your SELF RIGHTIOUSNESS.
Good luck earning your way to God when You reject Gods PLAN THE ONLY WAY TO GOD.
Jesus said only the sick need a doctor he paid no attnetion to the RELIGIOUS SELF RIGHTIOUS PIOUS LEADERS WORSHIPING IN THE TEMPLE AND HE WENT TO THE SINFUL WICKED AND PREACHED THE KINGDOM OF GOD. Now I see why he only cursed the Religious Temple worshipers that lives by the LETTER of the Law and MISSED the SPIRIT of the LAW. People Like you that THiNK YOU ARE SO HOLY BECAUSE YOU GIVE TEMPLE SACRAFICE! BUT YOU MISS THE SPIRIT OF RELIGION WHICH IS MERCY AND GRACE AND LOVE LOVE LOVE!!!!!!
YOU spend your lives worshiping images of diety and are BLIND to HIS SPIRIT!!!!!!
You are BLIND DEAF AND SELF DECIEVED!
THERE ARE REAL LIVE PEOPLE SUFFERING IN THIS WORLD AND YOU WASTE YOUR TIME AND MONEY WORSHIPING IMAGES THAT CANT SAVE YOU AND THAT DONT CARE FOR THE LOST AND DIEING THEY DONT LOVE!!!!!
I WILL LEAVE YOU MONKS TO YOUR TEMLE WORSHP BECAUSE IT IS CLEAR THAT YOU ARE ALL FULL OF YOUR SELF AND WANT TO STROKE YOUR EGOS AND HYPNOTISE YOUR SELF INTO A FALSE SENCE OF UNDERSTANDING WITH YOUR CHANTING AND DANCING YOU BUT YOUR SELF INTO A SELF INDUCED TRANCE AND ARE DECIEVED INTO BELIEVING THAT YOU ARE GOD CONSIOUS????
WOW WHAT A SHAME AND A WASTE!
EACH POST SHOWS YOUR EGO MORE AND MORE AND YOUR SELF-LOVEING ATTITUDES.
I WILL GO AND DO THE WILL OF GOD WITH TRUE BELIVERS THAT DONT NEED ALTERED STATES TO FEEL GODS LOVE AND PRESENSE. IF YOU EVER DID MEET THE TRUE LIVING GOD FACE TO FACE YOU WOULD BE SO SURPRIDED HOW MUCH MORE REAL AND TRANSDENTIAL HE IS COMPARED TO THE MYSTICAL TRANCE STATES YOU PUT YOUR SELF INTO WITH MIND CONTROL AND HYPNOSIS.
GOD IS REAL HE CAN BE KNOWN YOU CAN HAVE A REAL RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM. THE COUNTERFEIT SELF HYPNOSOS YOUE ENTER IN YOUR TEMPLES FROM YOUR CHANTING AND EXSTATIC DANCING IS A PALE EXCUSE FOR THE REAL THING.
I PITY YOU ALL!
HARE CHRIST HALE JESUS
KRISHNA WAS AND IS A MYTH!
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Re: Krsna Came to save the rightious and condem the sinners?
Sat, July 23, 2005 - 11:36 PM"How does the vedic lit reconcile the difference bettween reincarnation and resurection." I am not understanding you on this question, maybe you can can clarify.
What I mean is this:
Krishna teaches we live many lives and reincarnate mnay time on the way to perfection or back to godhead. So why does Jesus teach we only live one life and then are resurected unto eternal life. Only one can be the truth. Since Jesus is krishna in a differnt form or his messenger WHY does he contratict himself?
I hope this makes my question clear.
Thank you.
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Re: Krsna Came to save the rightious and condem the sinners?
Fri, July 22, 2005 - 7:09 AMlets clarify this confusion a little bit. 1st of all a real devotee thinks himself not to be righteous, but on the contrary to be fallen, as we all are in kali yuga, the age in which we live. as krsna's devotees we are the SERVANTS of all ppl.
did u know that one of krsna's names is dina bandhu? it means a friend to the lost/fallen. these things might surprise u. the verse that nityananda ram prabhu quoted is very important, but it mustnt be misunderstood. it means that krsna gets rid of miscreants, if u possess love of god/krsna then u are not a miscreant, even if we have faults. krsna is a karuna sindhu- ocean of compassion and doesnt judge us harshly. if we take even 1 step towards him he takes 1000 towards us.
the wording u use in ur post seems very judeo-christian. we dont really use words like sinner and condemn etc. those are more applicable to the bible. krsna doesnt come to condemn us, but rather re-establish religious principles so we can remember to love him. the gita u should read is bhagavad gita as it is by srila prabhupada, this should give u an accurate understanding of the love, and contempt that god has for us.
much love
hare krsna
manu dasa -
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Re: Krsna Came to save the rightious and condem the sinners?
Fri, July 22, 2005 - 7:12 AMoops that should read *NOT CONTEMPT* that god has for us.
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Re: Krsna Came to save the rightious and condem the sinners?
Fri, July 22, 2005 - 7:33 AMYes this is most true Krishna in Kali yuga comes to destroy the demoniac ( the mentality to enjoy separate from God) mentality within our hearts through the simple process of chanting. There is no condemnation. -
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Re: Krsna Came to save the rightious and condem the sinners?
Sat, July 23, 2005 - 10:12 PMThanks for your very educated responses BUT. Now I am more convinced that Jesus Is the only way to salvation. If The lord Krishna came as jesus then why did he contridict himself when he said that all are lost and in need of redemption? If all one needs to do is chant hare krishna then why did the lord krsna come as christ Jesus and confuse things with this sinners go to hell ideas?
I am not a smart person I cant understand all the quotes from this or that translation of the vedic lit But I have read and studied the gita as it is and spent MUCH time in the krishna temple in Laguna beach and listened to the teachings and CHANTED my ass off as well as lived the life. BUT what I haved learned is this: I am a dirty rotten lost sinner not worthy of seeing or being with God or having ANY kind of relationship with him whatsoever since he is all HOLY and worthy. and all you help and "answers" have not answered my question: who will save the LOSt and sinners such as myself?
Must I be reborn a 1008 times until I have the mind of a swami? What if this is it? What if Jesus was correct when he said it is appointed to a man to live ONCE and then the judgement?
And since as you have said krishna came as jesus whay did he contratict himself? Donrt you see what I am saying? Why did krishna teach reincarnation and then come and teach resurection as Christ just to confuse us? And then he apeared as the BUddah just to teach something entirely different????? It seems thee can be ONE truth and ONE lord and ONE GOD. Why so much differences.
IT would seem to me that since we can not recall ANY past lives and carry over no knowledge or learning from past lives then this life is IT! And what kind of JUST and loving GOD would condemn a simple man as myself for not having the brains to comprehend his mysteries?
Jesus seems to have been GODS ANSWER and a very simple one. We can do nothing to save ourselfs and so GOD came down and payed the price so that ANYONE with the heart of a child could simply BELIVE on HIM and HIS finnished work and be saved from this life and the life after or after life. After all how could we do ANYTHING worthy of him love for eternity?
Im sorry if I sound like a christian but I ahve taken the time to open myself up to ALL faiths and teachings and have found only ONE sure path to peace and atonement with GOD. All other seem to be mans attempt to raise himself up to GOD by RELIGION. Jesus came with GODs plan to reach down to lowly humans and make the way open because HE himself paid the ultimate price and did all the work and lived the PERFECT life that is IMPOSIBLE for you or I yet we all agree that pefection is the only thing that GOD can accept.
I have seen drug addicted alcoholic sexual imoral and whatever kind of BAD person CHANGED overnight and been filled with NEW life and peace and hope for this life and the next. I have seen the walking dead restored to new life and seen them go on to live a happy full life and pass away with a smile. In the ISKCON I have not. What I have seen are skinny old men in "HOLY" costumes looking like the walking dead eating fruit and reading passages chanting the mantra avoiding this and that and looking like they wish they were dead.
Sure there are LOTS of so called christians and churches that are as dead as the contents of a tomb and are decived if they think they are spiritual they love to look down on ISKCON I grant you that. BUT i have witnessed REAL followers of the LIVING CHRIST JESUS who are walking LOVE. When I see one of them I SEE REAL LIFE and true JOY. I SEE someone that HAS NO FEAR of death or anything else.
If anyone can help me understand without copy and pasting verse after verse and reffering me to the gita as it is then I am listening.
IF KRISHNA IS THE LORD and the truth then why did he come as jesus and completly contratict the vedic tradition and present a totally opposite teaching?
And my question still stands SINCE as you have pointed out so well that KRISHNA came to save the good and condemn the sinners who will save the sinners? And what does a rightious man need of a savior? And why does krishna need to condemn the condemed. WHO WILL SAVE the lost? WHO will save the prostitute on the street tht was born into a life of neglect and abuse and abandoned to a life of sin? MUST SHE PRAY to be taken in to a temple and chant the mantra a zillion times this life and the next 1008 x 1008?
And why is it that in india they say that those that follow the vedic religion ar so tolerant of ALL religions BUT they will cast away into the street any child that would dare to follow Jesus?
And just look at INDIA today is this the land of GOD? People starving and child prostitiotion and beggers ? Conpare that to a christianized land such as AMERICA......
I thought I could get an honest simple answer here but all I get is lots and lots of esoteric verse quotation and verbage.
SO go ahead and write me off as a demoniac I have been in more churches and temples around this world I have been open to all and honestly sought the truth the only answers I have EVER gotten was from the church and true followers of JESUS.
You can have your books and your religions and all of your rulkes and prohibitions against this and that and your hope that perhaps if krishna is willing you may make him happy and join him on his planet in a few thousand life times. I only have this one. And sinse jesus loved me enough t die for me I may as well live for HIM. Would krishna condem me for this?
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Re: Krsna Came to save the rightious and condem the sinners?
Sat, July 23, 2005 - 11:00 PM"If all one needs to do is chant hare krishna then why did the lord krsna come as christ Jesus and confuse things with this sinners go to hell ideas? "
sorry that is not Jesus www.omjesus.net
Jesus was not a Christian. The whole sectarian concept of condemnation unless one joins the Jesus club came up after Jesus. LOve thy Lord that is the eternal truth. Take Jesus as Guru and follow his teachins (such as tho shall not kill) St Francis did it and was able to make sence out of it so I am sure if you are sincere you will can too. I am not interested in arguing with you about who religion is better so go fishing somewhere else. Patita Pavana Krishna is savior of the Fallen no worries. He is not condemning anyone for accepting Jesus as there Guru but you must try to sincerely follow,.
Your servant
Nityananda Ram Das -
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Oh Im sorry Your web page is the gospel truth?
Sun, July 24, 2005 - 12:32 AMJesus was not a Christian....
The foolish statement of the year!!!!! In fact he was a jew.... But we are to be Christian Christ like So you were hurt by some uptight dead as a doornail church HUH? Why dont you forgive them and grow up and look to Jesus and stop blaming him for some church lady that messed with your head and stop with your ridiculous websites really how about if I point you to krishnaisadick.com what would that prove????? Waht an ass you are!!!!!!SO now I see what you are... You point me to a web page to PROVE that the Bible is myth? Wow you have more problems then I realized.
For thousands of years the Bible has proved true and now some webpage is going t blow it all out of the water?
You realy are ignorant and foolish. I wont waste my time on a angry stupid person with a closed mind such as your self. If you want to reject Jesus go ahead but dont point me to the gospel according to the internet you rascal and fool.
Just reject Him and go off and chant your way to oblivian. Thats right go of into your altered state of mind where everything is as you want to see it.
Good Bye foolish man why did I even think you were worth my time?????
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Re: Krsna Came to save the rightious and condem the sinners?
Sun, July 24, 2005 - 12:53 AMBut I see now you are just a punk kid with no experience and only want to see what you want to see.
Hey reject Jesus all you want. I could refute everything on that stupid web page and I have done so many time for people with the open mind to receive it and investigate for them selves what is truth, but there is a old saying i read in a book somewhere: Dont cast your pearls before swine.
In othe words: dont waste your time with foolish pigs that will just shit on ones wisdom and learning.
So go ahead and shit on Jesus because a web page tells you so and it is what you want to believe.
Jack ass
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accurate understanding of the love, and contempt that god has for us.
Sun, July 24, 2005 - 12:58 AMA freuidan slip? -
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Unsu...
Re: accurate understanding of the love, and contempt that god has for us.
Sun, July 24, 2005 - 7:56 AMKrsna come's to those who truly what to be saved. whether your a sinner or not. -
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Re: accurate understanding of the love, and contempt that god has for us.
Sun, July 24, 2005 - 9:35 AMYes this is true he simply reciprocates with surrender, regardless of the sinful heart, ye yatha mam prapadyante "I reciprocate with your surrender"
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