Advertisement
There is a group online for former devotees and friends. That is what they claim. In the rules it states that so long as you aren't offensive or something you can express your own viewpoint. But in reality what is their view? Not to support the viewpoint of Srila Prabhupada! If ever you try to say anything supported by the disciplic succession, Srila Prabhupada, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, Bhaktivinode Thakur and so on, you may be given a warning. The next stage is you have to go through the moderators before your post can go through.
However if someone blasphemes Srila Prabhupada to their hearts content that is allowed, it is not against the rules. So there are two sets of rules, one that allows blasphemy of the Lord and His pure devotees and the other that does not allow members of the forum who blaspheme the Lord to be criticised.
And what is the result? Devotees who have weak faith and have left the movement, already having problems spiritually, now have even more problems when they are confronted with devotees who have left the movement some thirty years ago sometimes who sometimes claim they are gurus, self-realised and so on. There are prakrta-sahajiyas. There are those who prefer to follow "babas", and not the sheep kind, the ones who pretend to be on a higher level.
Why such criticism, you ask? To spread the word to avoid such offenders. One personality involved claims to be a witch. Witches generally are considered to be in the mode of ignorance and she worships the Goddess Laxmi Devi as well. In general there is quite a hodge podge assortment of devotees. Some are attached to Christianity. But it is wrong to hear blasphemy of the bona-fide guru and be removed while at the same time they allow all kinds of nonsense to go on in the name of being friends with the devotees.
To be a kind friend of someone means to tell them about Krishna. I have been restricted from doing that time and time again. I don't see how they can claim to be friends of the devotees. It seems more like a place to go on our way back into the material world.
However if someone blasphemes Srila Prabhupada to their hearts content that is allowed, it is not against the rules. So there are two sets of rules, one that allows blasphemy of the Lord and His pure devotees and the other that does not allow members of the forum who blaspheme the Lord to be criticised.
And what is the result? Devotees who have weak faith and have left the movement, already having problems spiritually, now have even more problems when they are confronted with devotees who have left the movement some thirty years ago sometimes who sometimes claim they are gurus, self-realised and so on. There are prakrta-sahajiyas. There are those who prefer to follow "babas", and not the sheep kind, the ones who pretend to be on a higher level.
Why such criticism, you ask? To spread the word to avoid such offenders. One personality involved claims to be a witch. Witches generally are considered to be in the mode of ignorance and she worships the Goddess Laxmi Devi as well. In general there is quite a hodge podge assortment of devotees. Some are attached to Christianity. But it is wrong to hear blasphemy of the bona-fide guru and be removed while at the same time they allow all kinds of nonsense to go on in the name of being friends with the devotees.
To be a kind friend of someone means to tell them about Krishna. I have been restricted from doing that time and time again. I don't see how they can claim to be friends of the devotees. It seems more like a place to go on our way back into the material world.
posted by:
|
Unsubscribed |
Advertisement
Advertisement
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Thu, August 31, 2006 - 4:04 PMYes, we should worship Krsna, make friends with sincere devotees, preach to the innocent and avoid the envious.
Sadhu ninda is the worst offense to the Holy Name. It is described to be like a mad elephant. It will rip your devotional creaper to shreds. -
-
Unsu...
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Thu, August 31, 2006 - 5:02 PMDo you think, however, that since it is a site for FORMER devotees - that they should be able to do it? Honestly, as a "former" devotee, I previously lived in a temple for approximately 2 years and then left, but still maintain a fondness in my heart, but I still consider myself a "former" devotee. I do not go to the temple, and have not gone in years. I do not pray or anything else for that matter. Although, I always sing - but that is MY preference, and MY preference only.
There are some devotees who leave, and do so with a bad taste in their mouth. Ultimately it is there own soul that they are endangering, not yours or anyone elses. I think that they should be allowed their viewpoints, and if you don't agree - then don't visit the site.
That's my 2 cents. I am sorry if it seems harsh, or contrary to the principles of ISKCON and Krishna, but it is important to remember that we are all welcome to speak our minds, just as you all have mentioned about telling friends of Krishna. If it is truly like a mad elephant, so able to destroy one's faith, there would seem no real reason for visiting those sites. -
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Thu, August 31, 2006 - 5:30 PMYes I agree, both that they should be able to do it and that for a faithful devotee it is probably a good idea to avoid that type of association. Many people have been mistreated in the institution and there may be some value in being able to vent. Individually, though if we are serious about our devotional creeper we should protect it from harm.
I'm glad you still have a fondness in your heart and I hope you weren't mistreated. I have also left the movement as an active member but I still practice on my own and with others who are in my position. We have programs in people's homes, etc. -
-
Unsu...
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Fri, September 1, 2006 - 5:18 AMNo fears - there was no "mistreatment" at all. I lived in the temple in Atlanta, and have such fond memories of just about everything there. I left to attend college, no other reason. Things just happen over time, and I keep Krishna in my heart, but not in my agenda. Yes, I know that it is not as good as someone who practices, but that is just where I am at this point.
Well, a warm haribol to all. I am off to work. -
-
Unsu...
At least you can associate with devotees.
Fri, September 1, 2006 - 3:39 PMSrila Prabhupada said one time that if you have to leave at least you can associate with the devotees. Come to the Sunday Feast, come to Radhastami or some other festival. Some devotees have commented that Lord Nityananda's appearance day always brings back devotees who haven't been around for years. And I very much appreciate whoever comes back.
I have left and returned several times and had weak moments while at the temple. Still there is a danger in associating with an innocent intention and then becoming bombarded with so many offenses we don't know how to counteract that it actually does spoil our devotional creeper!
For example when a guru falls down, he should be given the chance to rectify himself. Srila Prabhupada said, and this is in the Bhagavad Gita, that whoever falls down will quickly be rectified providing he practices this process of Krishna Consciousness. It may not even be in this lifetime, but compared to the cycles of yugas it is better to try to become Krishna Conscious than not. In this endevour there is no loss or diminution. But if we listen to some devotees after hearing of someone's falldown demands for justice are there. Demands for the truth to come out for all to hear. I'm not talking of child molestors here necessarily, just someone who has admitted his falldown and wants rectification. And Srila Prabhupada said it is an offense to criticise them, as it says in Bhagavad Gita, and not to advertise their falldowns, because it makes it hard for them to come back. Other traditions have gurus who have fallen I have heard but they don't advertise it so we might think why does only ISKCON have so many fallen devotees?
When we hear a devotee criticised we have three choices, according to the Nectar of Instruction. We can leave that place immediately, we can defeat the offender, or cut out his tongue. Since we can't cut out his tongue we can either leave the website or try to defeat them. If we try to defeat them to help save the tender devotional creepers of all involved we are likely to meet with a wall of devotees determined to expose the ones who fell down so are we just to leave this type of website to it's own devices? If so, then we have to know it is under the control of those who might not be innocent devotees just recollecting the good old days but worse than that it is bad association that should be avoided. But that is not how it is advertised. Instead of saying they are friends of the devotees past or present they should say "A place to fault find and criticise Srila Prabhupada, the Gaudiya Math, Iskcon and even Lord Krishna. Whatever you want." Then former Vaishnavas will know what they are getting into. This is my opinion. -
-
Unsu...
I hate to sound harsh
Fri, September 1, 2006 - 5:32 PMSarah I hate to sound harsh or critical myself it's just that when I went there it seemed that every time I tried to say anything about Srila Prabhupada or ISKCON I would receive a pm that not everybody likes ISKCON or Srila Prabhupada but whenever somebody said something against Srila Prabhupada what kind of reprimand did they get? Perhaps they did get something pm'ed, perhaps not. But their comments were allowed and mine were not, it seemed to me. The proof of this was when they told me I always had to say everything was my opinion only, while anyone who blasphemed Srila Prabhupada did not.
Yes you have the right to lose faith in ISKCON if you want to, but why disguise the website as a place to help devotees when all it helps devotees to do is to lose faith? What is it helping devotees to do? Come to grips with the fact that they no longer are devotees, and are in association of others who aren't either? The sad thing is to see someone come there in good faith and maybe want to associate with devotees but after some time lose faith altogether and that's it for this lifetime. They end their spiritual lives at a place with repercussions that but for the association of this group might not have affected them. -
-
Unsu...
It just makes me sad
Mon, September 4, 2006 - 5:44 PM.it makes me so sad to see even one devotee leave. but even Srila Prabhupada packed away his radha krishna deities I've read in the lilamrta when he went to college, but later took up the worship again. -
-
Unsu...
Re: It just makes me sad
Mon, September 4, 2006 - 8:07 PMI can completely understand why someone would be upset about another leaving, but it is, afterall, freewill. Freedom to accept or turn your back, etc. I just am such a firm believer in the fact that we all need to have our space and freedom to express our beliefs and feelings. No doubt you feel the same Bhakta, but I think sometimes the goal of a group or their reason for being needs to be respected. Anyhow, keep up the kirtans and your faith and you will undoubtedly do much more good for many people, and not feel the affect of such negativity in your own life and spirituality.
-
-
This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: It just makes me sad
Thu, September 7, 2006 - 9:49 AMHow could anyone in their right mind criticize Dearest Prabhupada!?They wouldn't even have the luxury to Know anything!!Their maddness&rascal mind have gotten the better of them!They say that even in being an enemy that Krshna has mercy~That is the Love of GodHead!~Bless~ -
-
Unsu...
Re: It just makes me sad
Fri, September 8, 2006 - 5:04 PMYes Wendy I agree, if it weren't for Srila Prabhupada they wouldn't know a damn thing about Krishna, and then they go online and criticise him. But it all shows that they have to reject the guru in order to believe in their own ideas and allow themselves to be cheated. Like Lord Krishna says in the Gita, to those who wish to worship the demigods He gives them faith in them, otherwise they would not be able to do it. So some of these people might wish to be cheated but it is too bad some of them feel the need to criticise Srila Prabhupada in the process. -
-
Re: It just makes me sad
Sat, September 9, 2006 - 9:44 AMMaya has 2 shaktis, or potencies. The first is prapekshatmika shakti, that is she throws one in to a very undesirable condition of life. The second is avaranatmika shakti, or the covering potency, that even in that abominable condition one becomes attached and thinks they are ok. Just like one time Indra was cursed to become a hog. When the time for the curse was up teh spirit soul that was previously Indra was attached "no I don't want to leave this place. I have my stool to eat and my children". This is the avaranatmika shakti. And we can know that the prapekshatmika shakti is caused by performing activities that are warned against in the Vedic literatures. One of the biggest warnings is to not criticise devotees of the Lord, especially advanced devotees. To do so is an offense. Lord Caitanya compared this offense to a mad elephant that will completely uproot one's creeper of devotion and trample it to pieces.
It is an indication of grace or mercy that one is able to associate with devotees. It should not be taken for granted. When one leaves devotee association and takes up sense gratification again as the goal of life, the fact is that is because Krsna is withdrawing His mercy. And Krsna is withdrawing His mercy because of offenses. We should be careful to avoid offenses to devotees and offenses to the Holy Name. It should be no surprise that those who criticise Krsna's pure devotee are no longer interested in Krsna consciousness. And it should also be no suprise that they have lost their spiritual vision, which is a result of Krsna's mercy.
The lesson here is that one cannot persist with offenses and still remain within the shelter of Krsna's grace. -
-
Unsu...
Re: It just makes me sad
Mon, September 11, 2006 - 7:33 AMMakh... if only they could listen to your good advice.
-
Re: It just makes me sad
Fri, September 29, 2006 - 3:43 PMI just wanted to Makhancora Prabhu that after reading your posts in a few forums I really appreciate your input and sanga on this website. It seems there are a lot of younger devotees here who could benefit and are benefiting from hearing mature and balanced application of our siddhanta.
Most importantly I appreciate your repeated emphasis that devotees really need to have a good grounding in our teachings and be able to properly discriminate between what is Krishna Consciousness and what is not. My dear Krishna Conscious brothers and sisters .... I beg you to take this advice seriously. Srila Prabhupada made it a priority to give us an easy to understand summary of Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu and instructed that it should be read from every evening in the LA temple when it was first published. The core of his mission was to introduce the Gaudiya teachings to the western world as instructed by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura and it is every one of our responsibility to try to receive this gift for at least our own benefit.
Devotees like Makhancora Prabhu here have learned this lesson well (sometimes through trial and tribulation, am i not wrong?) that education is the essential purpose of the guru relationship far far beyond institutional loyalty. Srila Prabhupada himself demonstrated this by his disaffiliation with the Gaudiya-math when given the choice between submitting to the status-quo of the institution or genuinely following his guru's orders to educate in the English language. It seems that Krishna arranged things this way for him and I'm oh-so-grateful that he did or else I shudder to think of where I'd be now.
So I think we should be kind to these devotees who have so called 'left Krishna Consiousness' and realize that once Krishna's interest is invoked by performing some bhakti that He becomes attached to that person. Here's some nice reading on this point from 1st Canto:
"By service of the Absolute Truth, even for a few days, a devotee attains firm and fixed intelligence in Me. Consequently he goes on to become My associate in the transcendental world after giving up the present deplorable material worlds. Intelligence engaged in My devotion cannot be thwarted at any time. Even at the time of creation, as well as at the time of annihilation, your remembrance will continue by My mercy.
PURPORT by His Divine Grace:
Devotional service rendered to the Personality of Godhead never goes in vain. Since the Personality of Godhead is eternal, intelligence applied in His service or anything done in His relation is also permanent. In the Bhagavad-gita it is said that such transcendental service rendered unto the Personality of Godhead accumulates birth after birth, and when the devotee is fully matured, the total service counted together makes him eligible to enter into the association of the Personality of Godhead. Such accumulation of God's service is never vanquished, but increases till fully matured."
So the real situation is that despite that devotees think they are leaving Krishna consiousness they never can. (Why else would they make a website for former devotees if they didn't consider thier prior experience important to them.) Some can leave the current state of the institution (as Srila Prabupada demonstrated). Some can even leave the practice of sadhana. More tragically, there are a rare few who take to athiestic thinking. Most likely this is due to offenses such as the sadhu-ninda that Prabhu is pointing out here. Even then they usually become like Kamsa and still focus their concentration on Krishna but in a negative way.
When people leave the society of devotees, for whatever reason, we should not think that they are fodder for us to criticise and denigrate all sort of disrespect towards. That just gives them a very good reason not to come back into the association of devotees. We should be kind and understand that their Krishna consciousness does not depend on whether or not we accept them as devotees or not. Factually, we should be educated to understand the truth about their situation:
nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-prema ‘sādhya’ kabhu naya
śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye udaya
“Pure love for Kṛṣṇa is eternally established in the hearts of the living entities. It is not something to be gained from another source. When the heart is purified by hearing and chanting, this love naturally awakens." (Madhya 22.107)
nehābhikrama-nāśo 'sti
pratyavāyo na vidyate
sv-alpam apy asya dharmasya
trāyate mahato bhayāt
"In this endeavor there is no loss or diminution, and a little advancement on this path can protect one from the most dangerous type of fear." (BG 2.40)
...... (from purport) "Material activities and their results end with the body. But work in Kṛṣṇa consciousness carries a person again to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even after the loss of the body. At least one is sure to have a chance in the next life of being born again as a human being, either in the family of a great cultured brāhmaṇa or in a rich aristocratic family that will give one a further chance for elevation. That is the unique quality of work done in Kṛṣṇa consciousness."
So just like we don't uneccesarily kill even an ant so that it can continue unimpeded in its karmic journey we should be much more reverent of the relationship that Krishna has established with anyone who has even slighty awoken their dormant attraction for Him. They may seem 'fallen' by our faulty reasoning capacity but Krishna may see things differently. He may even put us in their position one day so we can see what it feels like to be 'on the outside looking in' if we can't develop a pleasing attitude whilst we are 'on the inside looking out'. Krishna is super-expert at giving lessons to teach us to be humble and grateful that we are on the path Home.
amāninā māna-dena kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ
Having said all that I should make it clear that I'm also a fallen person. I still chant Hare krishna and do some other sadhana practices. I even manage to make some contribution towards the institution (the ISKCON one - there are others out there though). But still I'm a fallen person and only by the grace of Srila Prabhupada I have a life worth living. So I hope I didn't offend anyone here with my views. -
-
-
Re: It just makes me sad
Tue, October 10, 2006 - 9:07 AMIf they are"no longer a devotee"doesn't that make them a karmi?~To turn away from the purest instruction then not only makes you a fool but a rascal as well! Unstable&weak people cannot interfere or challenge my Love or Devotion for Krshna OR Prabhupada! I really feel sad for them,compassion&pity nothing more! Better to be the fallen or poor devotee~How utterly sad&worthless does it seem?~But I guess that there is still Lila for the enemy or shatru of Krshna!~It is Still his mercy! How Beautiful is that?? JAYA!!!!
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Sun, October 22, 2006 - 1:40 AMHi, I am a former devotee and I would love to join in on some Prabhupada bashing, just wondering which Prabhupada they usually go for, A.C., or Chris Butler.
Chris Butler is my target of choice, being that I was born into a family of his disciples. Although it would not be difficult finding fault with the author of the atrocious "Bagavad-gita, as it is."
It is such a blatant hijacking and misrepresentation of the origional work.
The whole tradition of Gaudiya Vaishnavism is clearly created by MEN dedicated to controlling peoples spirituallity (by giving them none).
A system that demands your obediance to a middleman, dictates all thought and supressess all natural desire(sexuality) while directing your attention to the steamy sexual relationship of Radha Krsna is obviously there to use you to no end.
It is all wrong and does nothing but divide you from your true essence, your true potential. -
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Sun, October 22, 2006 - 9:56 AMYou are an adult now, so now you have a choice of what you want to cultivate in your life.
Do you really want to cultivate hate and anger?
Anger is one of the three gateways to suffering and misery, as stated in the Bhagavad Gita. (16.21)
If you do cultivate anger and hate in your life, don't blame anyone else when you get the natural results of such a mentality. -
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Sun, October 22, 2006 - 2:50 PM"You are an adult now, so now you have a choice of what you want to cultivate in your life."
Is what you said.
So you admit that a child born into a "krishna" family has absolutely no choice about "serving" Krishna.
It is the reality of the situation for multiple thousands of children who started off like myself.
No kid is going to concisely tell their parents that they don't want the package that their parents so graciously hoisted upon them and started beating relentlessly into their heads since they first burst into this world.
No Hare Krishna parent ever presented their belief system to their child any other way than "this is TRUTH".
Before I can even remember I was already bowing to the deities and the Guru, knew the chants and believed in krsna, completely a product of it before I could even speak.
This BULLSH*T is forced down the throats of every single kid born into it, they never even have a chance.
They were never supported to think for themselves, only to BLINDLY ACCEPT a twisted, stunting, hatefull, ignorant and completely disconnected ideology.
Independent thought is referred to as "Mental Speculation" and strongly opposed.
Instead we are sustained by just accepting the immaculate rants of "spiritual masters" and a system that endorses these unquestionable experts as completely necessary, and the only gateway to "god".
It is ALL false, it is all specifically DESIGNED in complete contradiction to true growth, true understanding and true independance.
As long as you accept it as it has been prepared for you, they have you. You are feeding them and they rule you.
I guess I should keep all this to myself, because the Gita says don't be angry.
Could you not learn a lot more about yourself if you accept and honor what is pumping through your veins?
I have no reason to be afraid, I have no reason not to paint a vivid picture of what I see when I look at where I came from.
Why spend your life molding yourself after some generic model of perfection? we are all completely unique and uniformity is real fu****g unhealthy.
I love you smug little Hare Krishnas thinking you are so right and people like me will "get mine".
All I can say is keep waiting, because if you are right, ol' krishna must be getting pretty pissed.
Too bad he is no more than a character invented by the same people who created the rest of 'em.
Krsna is Jesus is Horus, etc, etc, etc.
I don't know all the names, but Jesus(christ) and Krishna(or chrishna) share exact life details of about 13 other previous savior gods.
Why? because the life details are SYMBOLIC of encoded meanings that the ones in the know can decode.
There is little to no actual evidence of any of them actually existing, and I would say the fact that the stories of their lives and deaths are all similar or identical points more to the fact that they are all the same figure or concept recycled down through history.
It is the exact same formula behind all of them.
As I understand it, they are personified deities placed over our most ancient, origional and primitive form of worship or reverance...
That of the observation of the sun and stars. All the details shared by Krishna and the others are usually reference to the fact that these deities represent the sun.
below is a link to a video pointing these out.
www.youtube.com/watch
If you want the rest of this video, go here
www.youtube.com/results
Who are the ones creating these convoluted sun religions and selling them to the masses as truth and fact?
They operate through the stucture of secret societies and emerge sometimes as powers, then that power fades, they continue, always under a different banner.
They are the ones who burn entire libraries to the ground, erasing all natural knowledge, erasing their earlier religions and endorsing the current religion.
They are the ones who always claimed the right to rule over us on the behalf of god.
They are the monarchies of old, they are the ones with an iron grip on the media today.
They always want us in one place, disconnected from our true potential, serving an entraping belief system, at each others throats and completely blind to who they are and what they are doing.
Go read the bhagavad-gita again.
-
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Sun, October 22, 2006 - 5:10 PMhey Austin!
Amazing that the username 'rama' wasn't already taken.
I guess its your good karma from studying all those Upanisads eh?
:)
,
ekendra -
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Sun, October 22, 2006 - 7:22 PMMaybee the rest wanted DAS after it. -
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Sun, October 22, 2006 - 9:20 PM"Maybee the rest wanted DAS after it."
lol. Funny. :)
Still waiting to see your universal form though. i guess having an alter ego is a step in the right direction.
cheers,
ekendra
-
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Sun, October 22, 2006 - 10:22 PMI thought so too what a sore loser. Austin grow up. -
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Mon, October 23, 2006 - 12:50 PMI am actually in desperate need of an objective source of information on Gaudiya Vaishnavism, but I would surely pass it on when i get it.
Although I just got a book I am really exited about, called "the Suns of God:Krishna, Buddha and Christ Unveiled"
by the female author Acharya S., she wrote a great book called "the Christ Conspiracy", very much in the Jordan Maxwell vein.
from the back cover:
As archaeologist, historian, Mythologist and Linguist Acharya S thoroughly reveals, these numerous godmen were not similar "historical" personages who "walked the earth" but anthropomorphizations of the central focus of the famous "mysteries". A major element of the cryptic, international brotherhood, these mysteries extend back thousands of years and are found worldwide, reflecting an ancient tradition steeped in awe and intigue.The reasons for this religious development, which has inspired the creation of entire cultures, are unveiled in this in-depth analysis containing fascinating and original research based on evidence both modern and ancient-captivating information kept secret for ages.
I started reading the first chapter on Krishna, and it said:
"Like various gods and goddesses around the globe, the Hindu god Krishna has been the source of much confusion and speculation over the centuries. His purported earthly life has been asserted to have occured anywhere from hundreds to thousands of years before the common era, and his very nature has been debated thoroughly, with all manner of suggestion put forth.
Moreover, while he is a favorite of millions of people, Krishna has also been assailed, not only by Christian Missionaries and other foreign fanatics, but also by Indian natives as well. In fact, there have been "numerous tribes of Hindus" who have labeled krishna "in impious wetch, a merciless tyrant, an implacable* mind and most rancorous** enemy."1
Nevertheless, Krihsna is currently the defining deity within Hinduism and one of the most popular godmen in the world.
Although it appears to be a Monolithic*** faith,"Hinduism" is a term adopted in the modern era to describe the MANY religions of india."
1-Moor (Simpson),145:
Moor, Edward, The Hindu Pantheon, ed. W.O. Simpson, Indological book House, India, 1968.
-----------------------------------------------
A couple of definitions:
*implacable; adjective.
"The computer hacker has become the new implacable foe"
unappeasable, unforgiving, unsparing; inexorable, intransigent, inflexible, unyielding, unbending, uncompromising, unrelenting, relentless, ruthless, remorseless, merciless, heartless, pitiless, cruel, hard, harsh, stern, tough, iron-fisted.
**rancorous; adjective.
"California's rancorous recall campaign."
bitter, spiteful, hateful, resentful, acrimonious, malicious, malevolent, hostile, venomous, vindictive, baleful, vitriolic, vengeful, pernicious, mean, nasty; informal, bitchy, catty.
***monolithic |?män??li?ik| adjective
1 formed of a single large block of stone. • (of a building) very large and characterless.
2 (of an organization or system) large, powerful, and intractably indivisible and uniform : rejecting any move toward a monolithic European superstate.
3 Electronics (of a solid-state circuit) composed of active and passive components formed in a single chip. -
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Mon, October 23, 2006 - 1:09 PMFake profile. Austin Grow up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Mon, October 23, 2006 - 7:56 PMRama, you can believe whatever you want.
What I don't get is why you come here to argue with us. -
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Mon, October 23, 2006 - 8:33 PMwhat a geek, LOL
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Mon, October 23, 2006 - 11:58 PMI don'i know why you guys are still here, Sadhu ninda is the worst offense to the Holy Name. It is described to be like a mad elephant. It will rip your devotional creaper to shreds. -
-
This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Tue, October 24, 2006 - 4:03 AMAustin your a geek not a sadhu! -
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Tue, October 24, 2006 - 10:27 AMnever said I was -
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Tue, October 24, 2006 - 10:32 AMMaybee you could elaborate on WHY I am a geek?
Seems as though you have nothing more than your pathetic little insults.
Must be all that following.
By the way, my profile is absolutely accurate. -
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Tue, October 24, 2006 - 10:34 AMJust not the pictures. -
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Tue, October 24, 2006 - 6:07 PMYou still didn't explain a thing, and if I was motivated by envy, that would mean I want to be like you.
You have no idea what youa re talking about.
There is nothing fake about my profile except that there is no picture of me.
I was sent to a Brahmachari boarding school in the Phillipines.
I was born and raised inside the same religion/belief system that you freaks have such boners for.
I came onto this topic because I am the kind of person that it is talking about and I wanted to see what was up with the people who think the stuff that has been written on this page.
I think the self protecting mechanism that you all employ with regards to questions and objections towards anything about by Gaudiya Vaishnavism and it's "Spiritual Masters" is the epitimy of Blind Faith, and so low.
I really take issue with the way it is passed on to subsequent generations.
-
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Tue, October 24, 2006 - 11:20 AMOnly a geek would be so envious to make a fake profile to go on you troll spree,
Sorry guys for feeding the troll
-
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Tue, October 24, 2006 - 6:09 PMYou still didn't explain a thing, and if I was motivated by envy, that would mean I want to be like you.
You have no idea what youa re talking about.
There is nothing fake about my profile except that there is no picture of me.
I was sent to a Brahmachari boarding school in the Phillipines.
I was born and raised inside the same religion/belief system that you freaks have such boners for.
I came onto this topic because I am the kind of person that it is talking about and I wanted to see what was up with the people who think the stuff that has been written on this page.
I think the self protecting mechanism that you all employ with regards to questions and objections towards anything about by Gaudiya Vaishnavism and it's "Spiritual Masters" is the epitimy of Blind Faith, and so low.
I really take issue with the way it is passed on to subsequent generations. -
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Sat, October 28, 2006 - 2:05 PMSad,very sad.It's up to us to report it to tribe~Larry David Rama? -
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Sun, October 29, 2006 - 12:09 PMWhat about Larry David? I got Ricky Gervais up there, too. -
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Sun, October 29, 2006 - 1:23 PMYou guys are truly sad with your inability to let people truly speak their minds. I am talking about the f***in' s**t that was this origional thread.
What would be really sad is if I had never broken the stranglehold that was placed on me the moment I was born.
Or if I bought into the fear mongering that you propagate on behalf of "Gaudiya Vaishnavism", everything that you rejects said above, including a person like myself having their tongue cut out.
I bet none of you have ever really looked at what existed and exists in 'Hinduism' before and outside of 'Vaishnavism'.
Read here, www.hinduwisdom.info/introdu...uism.htm
quotations from the link in quotations.
"When religion becomes organized, man ceases to be free. It is not God that is worshipped but the group or the authority that claims to speak in his name. It is not faith, but just social idolatry. God is not like a father in a patriarchal society, who has His favorite children to whom He communicates. This idea seems rather archaic and crude. Hinduism believes in behavior than belief and experience over authority. "
I KNOW none of you operate on that level.
"Hindus were the first to discover that Truth had many facets. That the Supreme can be worshipped in any form is a concept unique to Hinduism.
They, therefore, never committed the error of imagining, as some people did, that they knew the ultimate truth, and that no further enquiry was required."
"Further, Hinduism recognizes no intermediary or prophet as standing between man and God.
It has none of baggage of exclusivism expressed through a prophetic medium."
I am sure, by now, you realize that it is not describing any of the characteristics of our beloved "Gaudiya Vaishnavism".
"Knowledge, vision, wisdom, is the goal of the Upanishads. It is a new kind of thinking in which the whole man in implicated. The aim is not intellectual conformity to inherited doctrine, but one of attainment of knowledge. He can question the authority of any scripture, or even the existence of the Divine. Despite being the oldest religion, the truth realized by the seers prove that the Truth and path provided by Hinduism is beyond time. Its concern is with the absolute Truth, not with systems of belief. The absolute Truth is universal, and forever impersonal."
(I know that you all consider your system of belief the 'absolute truth'.)
"Freedom of choice – distinguishes pluralistic Hinduism from other Semitic religions. In the Hindu tradition, one is free to choose, question and reject. A Hindu faces no dire consequences even if he rejects the Vedas as false."
It also describes how the deities and stories have always been understood to be symbolic and metaphorical, never litteral.
Now take a look at 'Vaishnavism'.
It came in FAR more recently, even as recent as 6th to 9th century a.d.
It was at least still establishing itself at this time.
"Vaishnavism" came in and flipped all that I quoted above on it's head.
Vaishnavism demanded that it all be taken litterally, vaishnavism instituted the 'middleman', Vaishnavism put itself in a position of authority, absolutely killing the life and ability of a tradition to be an open, dynamic and creative vehicle.
Vaishnavism started the whole extremely literal dynamic of god being a person, and we must serve, tip-toe around and be sure to please.
I always wondered why the beliefs I was raised with were so damn similar to christianity, like a westernised hinduism, or christianity dressed in reincarnation, vegetarianism and Hindu deities.
I really think that this "Vaishnavism" is clearly a product of INFILTRATION by those of the secret societies, the 'Illuminated ones' who actually believe themselves to be 'gods'.
They are of the secret societies, and thus leave their trade marks everywhere.
One being in the stories of the Twelve Alvars, the 12 saints, between 6th and 9th centuries who really got Vaishnavism going.
There were 12 and only one was a woman.
This is classic Illuminati symbology, common to all their trademark religions.
The 12 are the Zodiac, the one female represents Virgo, the virgin.
This is why Christ had 12 disciples, and why in Leonardo DaVinci's 'the last supper' the 12 disciples' heads are in four groups of three, and why one is represented as female. the 12 signs, the 4 seasons.
They exist to dominate us, and they are the ones who created all the entrapping belief systems that keep us POWERLESS and lead us to believe we are best to just CONCEDE, SURRENDER AND SERVE.
That is the essence of the prison religions, and clearly NOT what the tradition of truth in India was ever based on. -
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Sun, October 29, 2006 - 1:27 PMThe worst thing is that none of you are capable of actual discussion...
austin austin austin lol lol lol geek geek geek sad sad sad
pretty pathetitic, completely brainless.
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Sun, October 29, 2006 - 7:09 PMIs that going to be your story at the time of death?
"I was born in to a family of devotees who tried to indoctrinate me but I got out and I spent the entire rest of my life bitching about it."
If you are looking for what is evil there is tons of it to dwell on.
If I was you I would put some energy in to figuring out what I DO believe in.
Instead of arguing with those who believe something that you dont.
Just some friendly advice to someone with no friends.
-
-
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Sun, October 29, 2006 - 3:27 PMEnjoying the dawg, wendy? -
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Sun, October 29, 2006 - 5:54 PMGervis,or Gerbil it's all the same sik shit Austin~How low can you go?Oh, I probably don't even need to go there!~any advise?*Take Your Meds*!&don't combine them with alcohol!Your a Joker!Very entertaining I might ad!! -
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Mon, October 30, 2006 - 12:50 PMUm.... Gervais, yes, very low... a DEMON, in fact... I should not pollute my mind with comedy and creativity that is literally genius.
You embody the exact mentality that my parents, brother, and everyone I ever knew from my childhood embody.
You are all dead. You walk around this planet with the idea that anything that is not from the little cache of krishna related stories and images is of no value, and that the only time it is worth investing any effort into this world is when it is an opportunity to indoctrinate another ignorant fool into your mental prison/coffin.
It is for sure the worst way to exist and I am sure glad I recognized it on my own. Anything is possible here, this world is for us to completely embrace. The amount of evolution and experience we can have here is unlimited.
Wow, you said: "Gervis,or Gerbil it's all the same sik shit"
I assume from that little gem of ignorance that you are another raging Homophobic. Was your braindead Homophobia a gift of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami? Is this line of hate universal among Gaudiya Vaishnavas?
Can you not see that you are no different from any other fanatical, closed minded fundamentalist?
I bet you have never seen or heard any of Ricky Gervais' work, either.
He is a genius, his humor is absolutely second to none.
Still, no explanation as to WHY he is LOW. Still, everything I pointed out in my post yesterday just went straight over your head.
WE HARE KRISHNAS MUST AVOID ALL ACTUAL THINKING AND ANALYSIS... KRSNA DOES NOT LIKE INTELLIGENCE... INTELLIGENCE TAKE BABY AWAY FROM KRISHNA.
What I was pointing out yesterday was not 'jokes' and 'jest', you imbecile, it was actual thought, real analysis. F***in' truth.
You are a juvenile.
You have aligned yourself with and sold your soul to ignorance and hate. You think you have aligned yourself with god.
Too bad that bigotry and ignorance are not qualities of truth... You are going down with that ship and will get what is coming...
More ignorance, more bondage. As long as where you are at right now satiates you, you will continue to play it out. Life after life, just falling in line.
Have fun, the rest of us would rather be our own independent individuals, capable of anything we chose. I sure hope that includes more like Larry David and Ricky Gervais. Bill Hicks... there is an example of true immortality. He had fully functional vision, his spiritual eye was blazing, and could see all. That is what compells me. Speak the truth, it is found directly in your chest, throat and head.
Let it burn a whole in this world.
Read J. Krishnamurti.
Listen to Alan Watt.
Become alive again.
It is the only way to be.
-
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Mon, October 30, 2006 - 1:37 PMMy mistake, I meant Alan Watts... not Alan Watt.
Alan Watt has some crazy info, too, though. -
-
Unsu...
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Mon, October 30, 2006 - 6:21 PMRama,
I started this thread. It was to warn devotees to stay away from a particular group which many know about, but perhaps not you, so I will spell it out...Gaudiya-Repercussions.com. Or is that defamation? Anyway when they kicked me out of there I told the mod I would do this, so now it is done.
But anyone who uses the name Rama has my respect. I even respect the friends and former Vaishnavas at Gaudiya Repercussions while avoiding their association. I commisserate with you about how you were mistreated especially by former gurus who somehow felt they had to artificially try to act like Srila Prabhupada and thus ended up trying to fool the society that they were uttama adhikaris and ultimately were exposed by Krishna. I'm sorry that the gurukulis were abused, and the Mod at Gaudiya Repercussions(GR)has a whole section devoted to that, she is actually quite sympathetic there in that regard. She is a Prabhupada initiate, forgot her name.
So I don't blame you for hating whatever brought about your hatred for gurus, gurukula teachers, senior devotees, Prabhupada disicples, even temple presidents and sankirtana devotees I too have had my share. Maybe for someone like you, in your case GR is a good place to go to, you may find some other devotees in the same situation. I have seen worse over there and only saw the negative, but now, thanks to you, I find the association beneficial. I think it would help you, in all sincerity. By the way, I am not just a new bhakta. So when they figured that out over at GR, they thought I was someone called Bhakta Dan that had been kicked out before and was trying to get back in under a new name and that is when they kicked me out because the founder of the group has had stalker(s) before. She now worships Durga or somebody I think. -
-
Unsu...
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Mon, October 30, 2006 - 6:31 PMJust visited Gaudiya-Repercussions.com . Tapati is the leader. Try it out I think you will like it. If nothing else like one devotee said at least you might end up Krishna Conscious like Ravana or someone in your next life, but I was trying to avoid that by saying to avoid the website altogether. But some people just need someplace to vent. That seems to be what she is there for. Good Luck!
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Tue, October 31, 2006 - 3:58 AMSorry bhakta but rama is not a gurukuli that is a fake profile, he is a disgruntled mayavadi by the name of Austin who pathetically made a profile in the name of a gurukuli. He has never been to any temple nor has even met any devotee. You can see some of his post on the Adi Bhagavad Gita tribe and Srimad Bhagavatam tribe. Don't be fooled -
-
Unsu...
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Tue, October 31, 2006 - 12:27 PMNity...
that's alright with me. I have been falsely accused of being a trollbot at GR, and a troll here when I haven't yet figured out what that means. But if Rama wants to come here or Austin or anyone I don't mind. Still he should probably go to GR if he hasn't already because they can help him, the problem is he may bring some of them down with his bad association since they aren't all gurus over there or anything. That was point in starting this thread in the first place. That and the fact that Tapati falsely accused me of being Bhakta Dan I think and kicked me out despite the fact that other members of GR thought I wasn't doing any harm and the only thing I did do wrong was defend myself for speaking favorably about Srila Prabhupada to another member who also thinks favorably about him when Tapati said I was wrong to try to speak so favorably about His Divine Grace to the other member. That to me is the real reason she kicked me out.
Rama or Austin may already be one of the crazy members over at GR anyway, I already realised. Some of them don't even seem sane materially, since this is the reaction for offending the devotees and it seems to have happened to quite a few of them who like to hang out there now.
But I don't want to disagree with all of you over here, you may very well be right, and we shouldn't hear blasphemy of the Lord and His devotees. Go ahead and try to discourage him if you like. I will try to encourage him to go over to GR. -
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Wed, November 1, 2006 - 4:12 PMRama was raised in a family that follows the bogus guru Chis Butler aka Siddhaswarupa. It is sad he has such a bad taste for Krishna Con. and now goes out of his way to criticize all of the Vaishnavas.
Rama take it easy not every devotee is like Chris Butler and I can understand your frustration but you are being unfair to other devotees. Also it was always Mr. Butlers thing to criticize everyone, maybe that is what you are doing now to all the devotees so you are really not that finished with what you learned from him.
Give Krishna and the devotees a break. -
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Wed, November 1, 2006 - 4:39 PMThere seems to be a growing number of very disgruntled former followers of Chris Butler aka Siddhawarupnanda Prahmanhimsa so maybe Rama is like one of the very angry gurukuli’s but from the Siddha group.
www.angelfire.com/blog/gurunetwork/
forum.rickross.com/viewtopic.php
www.science-of-identity.blogspot.com/ -
-
Unsu...
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Wed, November 1, 2006 - 5:29 PMom shanti om,
I was surprised how merciful Srila Prabhupada was, not that he wasn't merciful, but when a disciple left to go to Hawaii and start his own group and they didn't want to sell books, the Haribols if I'm not mistaken. Srila Prabhupada told him to chant. Perhaps he knew that the devotees in this group wouldn't have done anything more anyway. I guess ultimately if one is sincere he can even leave the Haribols if his mother and father raised him in that group and after becoming disenchanted with that and lumping ISKCON in with them he might start out with a negative attitude towards ISKCON but later come to realise the genuine level of Krishna Consciousness available that one can derive by following the group. There are always pure devotees somewhere on the planet, I have heard it said. And why wouldn't they be attracted to serving ISKCON over some other group at this time? Krishna has no doubt sent many sincere souls to help Srila Prabhupada as I just overheard a devotee talking about on Srila Prabhupada's disappearance day last week.
I'm not saying devotees can't join other groups that ultimately will all come over to ISKCON by Krishna's plan to help those devotees in the meantime. And no offense to any "gurus" outside of ISKCON, but if they help devotees stay Krishna Conscious who don't want to preach at least they are chanting. One time a devotee did not want to go out on Sankirtana I heard and Srila Prabhupada said,"What can I do?" He could not force her to preach. I myself am far from surrendered in many many ways but I do feel that book distribution is the best service. -
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Wed, November 1, 2006 - 5:46 PMBhakta
Yes Srila Prabhupada was very merciful and tried to encourage the group as much as he could. When it became apparent they were going to do what they wanted regardless of what Srila Prabhupada wanted he let them go on. But there was really no confusion among the disciples of Srila Prabhupada concerning Siddhaswarupa and his group as far as I can tell by the many letters and conversations found in the folio concerning the group.. Now that 30 years has passed we are seeing the repercussions of one who wants to play the role of guru without the proper qualifications. I am not a member of ISKCON but I have met many sincere devotees in ISKCON and there is no doubt Siddha and his criticism of so many gurus in ISKCON was no more than the pot calling the kettle black. Anyway it still saddens me to see the by-products like Rama appear so rabid against Gaudiya Vaishnavism, on the other hand I do not blame the Rama’s or the gurukulis completely. They have some very legitimate gripes no doubt. But if one is sincere they will be led to a bon-fide guru and let misgivings from the past go.
We make advancement by glorifying the pure devotees, the Vaishnavas and Krishna not criticizing the pretenders and bogus gurus. That is left up to the acharyas but we should also show some discretion and show some discrimination in all these dealings and not be ‘pie in the sky’ cases.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Wed, November 1, 2006 - 6:21 PMSorry you think that:( that is very sad! But It's free entertainment to us! If ya got a problem with KC maybe ya should stay outta the kitchen so to speak! You are just gathering more offenses~:) You may have better points made if you didn't loose it so often,(anger is bad!)~it kinda invalidates your arguements.Thanks for the threads! -
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Fri, November 3, 2006 - 5:35 PMJust so yas know, my name is not Austin... I thought that was some weird inside joke/insult... I thought that since some of you were from Dallas, (or whichever texan city) that maybee "Austin" was an insult refering to people from Austin, as I hear they are all artsy and 'progressive', kinda like a 'San Fran-Sicko' of the south. (I live in San Francisco by the way. I am a New Zealander and Rama Das is my legal first and middle names...) I don't know that if you knew I am sincere in everything i say that it would matter, but i thought that i should mention it when i finally saw the "Austin" explained.
I was absolutely born and raised under 'serious' disciples/devotees of/under Chris Butler Siddhaswarupananda paramahamsa (king kamsa).
My brother is currently "on site" and "serving" this man with hella other people. I have seen my brother like twice in about 8 years.
I have never said any of this stuff directly to my family, but at this point I would really want them to know what i think of what they gave me.
You must admit that this thread invites opposition, just go back and read the top of the page. The idea expressed origionally in this thread is exactly what i want challenge, I think you are seriously screwed for propagating this dominance. I want my thoughts to be available because I know that there are very many more just like me.
Freedom, b*tches. -
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Fri, November 3, 2006 - 7:46 PMFor what it's worth, I think it's a great idea to talk to/confront your parents and brother. You never know something good might come out of it.
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Fri, November 3, 2006 - 8:01 PMI have been posting a lot at the rickross website, you can see me with the handle Rama Das (slave name).
Most likely similar to the website you mentioned, Bhakta, although I have not seen it yet.
I know that Siddha is really a truly messed up dude, and I know that A.C. Bhaktivedanta was infinitely more sweet, compasionate and understanding.
I also know of the ideals and system laid down by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami... I know where everything that siddha preaches and endorses has it's roots.
I think the things I point out about Gaudiya Vaishnavism in comparrison to other forms of Hinduism are not misinformed... I know what is Siddha's and what is truly Gaudiya Vaishnavism.
I talk about the following things which are not inventions of Siddha:
The NEED for a middleman, a "pure devotee", a guru.
the individual is told that they are not capable of independently moving into "god".
The condemnation of so much, Homosexuality, drug use, sex... that list goes way on.
Looking at anything and everything that comes from this world as illusion, maya, insignifigant.
Totally giving up true critical ability, "don't question this!" and seeing the perceived Guru as very Authoritave, while believing yourself to lack the tools to intuit and discover truth and yourself on your own.
Every single aspect of it is GIVEN to you.
I know this is not exclusive to Chris Butler.
I know that anything displaying any of the above characteristics is true poison designed specificly for us so we never figure out the true nature of this game.
As soon as we take our souls back, stop feeding their parasites and demons, know that the light that shines from us is really ours, then we can NEVER AGAIN be controlled.
We can stand as who we really are, true individuals whose potential and depth are fathomless.
I know this, I want to talk about all of it.
I was born into what I was so I could see it.
I broke those chains by myself and for myself from the most pure place in me.
I am actively rewriting this consensus reality and group-think that bind us through conditioning spanning back so many thousands of years.
This subservience and subordination is wired deep down into our genetics and you can feel that shit real strong when you start walking your own way.
I feel compelled to absolutely face it, to let my heart speak, to let all this out that you have been witness to.
It challenges the very deepest foundations that my life and emotions were built on.
I feel how much all that i say would devistate my parents.
I feel far more strongly that they should know more than anyone, that they should really be engaged with the outcome of what they chose for me.
I think that this place we all are(earth) is really amazing and that it really should be embraced.
I see masters walking amongst us all the time.
They never have followers bowing at their feet, they are all completely unique and have no orders for anybody.
Jiddu Krishnamurti was such a person. Study a little his life. read anything by him, read a transcript of his speech when disbanding the worldwide following to whom he was supposed to be the god on earth. This is real, it is POLAR OPPOSITE of everything that A.C. Bhaktivedanta and the rest taught.
EVERYTHING that Krishnamurti ever wrote was completely of this nature. He is right... sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo farrrrrrrrrrkin right.
Eckhart Tolle
Michael Tsarion
Alex Jones
Ricky Gervais
Carlos Castenada
Darkest Hour
At The Gates
Terrence Mckenna
Dan Yemin, for SURE!!!!!!
The wisdom and work of these kind of people is what i am drawn to.
Don't count on seeing me down the local Kirtan.
signed, STONE COLD STEVE AUSTIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! because stone cold said so.
Hey, Bhakta, I do appreciate your responses. I feel that you would want to actually engage in this, not just snicker.
Much Mahalos, cuz.
-
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Fri, November 3, 2006 - 8:16 PMMankhor, thanks for that... It is no small feat, and at this point is most likely innevitable (as I imagine many eyes are on the rickross board from the butler camp, and I purposefully identified myself.)
I want to, more than anything so that perhaps where we each respectively stand is known. I hope that my mind can have a place in their lives, and I hope whoever and wherever I am is not unacceptable to them.
I want to be accepted for who i am, I think it would be so mature of them to actually hear me out. Hear me out, stay true to who they are and let it all exist.
As of right now, I have not discussed these things with them. -
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Fri, November 3, 2006 - 11:16 PMmakhanchor... -
-
Unsu...
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Wed, November 8, 2006 - 9:12 PMstone cold steve,
yes I would like to engage in this topic,
I was told that I can't think for myself, that the advanced devotees know so much more than me. This is true, but who are these advanced devotees? Krishna does like to have us approach Him through His devotees. But we need PURE devotees, not just someone who says they are pure. I could try to be clever and say that you are espousing your philosophy by saying we don't need a guru, and that you are acting like a guru by telling us we don't need a guru, so we should listen to you because of your realisations, or because you said so, or your whole list of other people who all agree with one another.
But the fact is that Mother Jasoda is serving Krishna, and the elderly gopis serve her. The cowherd men serve Nanda Maharaja. The younger gopis serve Srimati Radharani. The six Goswamis served their gurus. Lord Nityananda is Lord Balarama and he is the original guru, the concept is there. Even in the Bhagavad-Gita Lord Krishna says he spoke this science originally to the Sun god and so on.
What has fried you out is not the big people but the little ones. Because we have had such bad experiences with the little gurus of today we think things are the same if we go back to the next generation of gurus. Because of devotees like Bhagavan, Ramesvara, Kirtanananda and Prthu, should I even include Satsvarupa then we think that Srila Prabhupada was the same way. If Satsvarupa fell down after fourty years as a devotee then Prabhupada must be at fault. But Satsvarupa is still becoming purified, in my opinion, and might be guilty of being a pretender but who isn't? Who wants to let the whole society know all their dirty little secrets? Krishna Consciousness is simple for the simple and difficult for the crooked. I wish I were simple and pure, but I'm not. So in the meantime I pretend and try to hang in there and hope for some purification.
But Srila Prabhupada had to take hippies and drug addicts and turn them into Vaishnavas right from the very beginning. We cannot blame him for his men falling down because he had to establish a GBC and gurus and sannyasis and set things up before he left at the age of eighty. He didn't live to be 100 and if he had how many of his disciples would have left him before that anyway? I don't know. But we can't blame Srila Prabhupada for the way things turned out. For all the child molestors, position grabbers, money stealers, woman stealers and fake gurus because time will show who stays in this movement and even if we don't go back to Godhead at the end of this life at least in our next life we can take up where we left off in this one. For someone like me that may be my only chance.
I was born addicted to women, drugs, meat eating and gambling, cheating and stealing, these are my propencities. I am trying to give them up by becoming a devotee but I am addicted to sinful life from time immemorial. May God have mercy on my soul. Hare Krishna. -
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Thu, November 9, 2006 - 5:49 AMCool, man.
I liked reading your words.
In response to the Guru paradigm, I offer Jiddu Krishnamurti, This speech in particular.
bernie.cncfamily.com/k_pathless.htm
There is a difference.
I am just talking, do absolutely anything you will.
-
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Thu, November 9, 2006 - 7:51 AMKrishna Consciousness Movement ( or any God consiouss movement ) is for training men to be independently thoughtful and competent in all types of departments of knowledge and action, not for making bureaucracy (not for making a big institution). Once there is bureaucracy (a big institution) the whole thing will be spoiled.
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami
"The idea of an organized church, in an intelligible form, indeed marks the close of the living spiritual movement. The great ecclesiastical establishments are the dikes and the dams to retain the current that cannot be held by any such contrivances. They, indeed, indicate a desire on the part of the masses to exploit a spiritual movement for their own purpose. They also unmistakably indicate the end of the absolute and unconventional guidance of the bona fide spiritual teacher." - ORGANIZED RELIGION- His Divine Grace Sri Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Goswami Maharaja Prabhupada, the guru of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami
Rama das you threw out the baby Krishna with the bathwater dude.
Rethink what you are doing and reconsider your harsh words against the Vaishnavas.
You never really came in contact with a bone-fide guru. You never really followed the process on your own. You were a kid doing what his parents wanted him to do until you made up your own mind. Now you are doing what you like. Be happy and don’t blame anyone for your own suffering.
SO stop acting like you know something about Krishna Con. You don’t.
-
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Thu, November 9, 2006 - 5:03 PM"Once there is bureaucracy (a big institution) the whole thing will be spoiled."
ISKCON... idiot. -
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Thu, November 9, 2006 - 5:35 PMKrsna is not god. Krsna is a man made character clearly infused with many temperamental and egotistical qualities which could never represent all people... God is not jealous, god does not become offended, god does not draw ANY of the lines in the sand that "Krsna Consciousness" does. This alone is clear as day. You just want to worship the hard-assed, unchanging, ignorant, exclusionary and exclusive aspects of your own limitations, so just embody them into an eternal, untouchable and "perfect" God figure. Your ignorance and ego can live eternally through this vessel.
To even consider this idea is not acceptable, let alone actually having a little look.
To align yourself with and worship this as you do, you are exalting nothing more than the divisive, egotistical qualities of little men who want to believe they know it all.
you in turn take the whole pill they give you, assuming you were one of the very few lucky ones to actually find a BONA-FIDE guru, and in so doing, completely rape yourself of your own worth, your own power and your own intellect.
Please, nomatter who the guru is, if they speak from a place of authority, you let them do all the work for you. You get nowhere as a result.
Even a "bonafide" Gaudiya Vaishnava guru will encourage the pathetic charade of "I am so low and fallen" which you perform like the best of them. That is so fake, it is like a sick little competition you all partake in... constantly parade around a notion of how fallen and humble you are. The purpose? to put on a show to prove to all what a nice devotee you are. You take pride in how little pride you claim to have.
If you are, or anyone else is really interested in why I say what I do about this Guru-Disciple model, please, check out the link to Krishnamurti I left above.
-
-
-
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Thu, November 9, 2006 - 7:58 AMVery well said.
You have served the parampara well and spoken most honorably on behalf of Srila Prabhupada.
What ever small merit I may have I wish you to have it. -
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Thu, November 9, 2006 - 8:00 AM^was in reference to bhaktas post defending Srila Prabhupada. -
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Thu, November 9, 2006 - 5:46 PMJesus Christ. If A.C. really thought this, he did an awfull job... he left in his wake exactly what he claims to be opposed to.
"Krishna Consciousness Movement ( or any God consiouss movement ) is for training men to be independently thoughtful and competent in all types of departments of knowledge and action, not for making bureaucracy (not for making a big institution). Once there is bureaucracy (a big institution) the whole thing will be spoiled."
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami -
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Thu, November 9, 2006 - 6:12 PMYou place the fault in faulty gurus, yet nobody is more to blame for this situation than A.C. Bhaktivedanta.
He personally gave them all their titles, he let the ones out there keep running around while they were already displaying questionable behavior, simply saying "let them chant" as they proceed to take disciples and become their masters...
Bhaktivedanta would not mind that thousands of genuine people would become involved with "non bonafide gurus" who flash about their credentials supplied by him, selling themselves with their affiliation to him.
This was all well underway before he died, and he left a FUCKING HUGE bureaucracy behind that was/is a perfect vessel for any of these creatures to operate through.
His silence around this, and his "just chant" attitude are not good at all. Maybee he was just extremely naive, and thought that everything would be okay, krsna would take care of it.
This is possible, but I doubt it.
The only thing that concerned him was the sucess and magnitude of his organisation, he really cared little for the quality of what was to come from it.
And it has been a fucking disaster. -
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Thu, November 9, 2006 - 6:19 PMthe speech by Krishnamurti is the antithesis of this very situation. -
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Thu, November 9, 2006 - 6:19 PM -
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Thu, November 9, 2006 - 8:37 PM"...They(organised religions) also unmistakably indicate the end of the absolute and unconventional guidance of the bona fide spiritual teacher."
I would suggest that this makes the organised religions better options.
The "absolute guidance"? Does that not seem like a little bit of a contradiction? at the point of guidance being "absolute" it would be resembling flat out, unquestioned orders... like one dictating what another should do, what another should think, how another should react.
This is how your system of "Gurus" works. It creates robotic, scripted and generic beliefs and morality. This is my whole point, I guess, I think that when people mold themselves after the advice of others in this way, it will never create a whole person, the person will always be an imitation. Maybee the whole way in which we look for advancement is wrong.
Maybee there is good reason to believe that we have been largely lead and manipulated into this position.
99% of what comes to us as trditions, religions, ideas, etc... are all based on the model of giving people the answers, people just take it, it has already been prepared for them. -
-
Unsu...
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Mon, November 20, 2006 - 3:34 PMrama
couldn't get on for a while,
you criticise Lord Krishna for not being the type of God you wish. But Krishna's qualities are not mundane, they are transcendental, haven't you ever heard that? Whatever seeming anger or jealousy there is in him is not like ours. For example he defended Prahlada Maharaja because Prahlada was an innocent boy who was being harrassed by his bigger father. One time I saw a man yelling at his son and a stranger drove by and told the man to pick on someone his own size. So this is natural, we just have to understand the reason why behind it.
As far as Srila Prabhupada, yes he had to do the best he could with the men he had. He said he developed some positions in order to satisfy the egoes of the leaders who needed them. But can you do a better job? You say not to listen to anyone but then why should we listen to you? Aren't you yourself placing yourself in the role of a superior? "Do what I say, don't listen to Prabhupada or Krishna!". Who should we listen to then, you?
First understand the transcendental nature of Krishna as he says in the Bhagavad-Gita, Second understand the position of Srila Prabhupada as a bona-fide guru who had to do the best he could with the men he had. Then tell us how you think you can improve things. If your only advice is for us to give up Krishna and Srila Prabhupada then I think you are really just asking us to convince you of their genuiness since you have some doubts and this is your way of doing it. Try asking more submissively if you really want an answer. Otherwise what can be done? If nothing else you can go to the temple and take prasadam, see the Deities and dance and chant with the devotees and try to establish friendships with some of them but please by nice, devotees are saintly by nature and aren't used to such harsh words, although I have used some in the past myself. -
-
Re: Be aware of the repercussions for thinking you understand Krishnas' true Consciousness.
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 5:30 PMCome on "Rama" ...take me on..
..I am not afraid of mayavads with misconceptions
& I yet will never defend ANY institution, but maintain full faith in self-realized souls and the chanting of the holy names!!!
Your experiences in regard to the Chris butler cult is understandable- iam sorry....
I have never given my power to ANY society, but I have tapped into the mercy of the Sadhus- which gives a bliss of such sweetness that the offenders of the Vaishnava' can have not a scent of!
So I will also state that "Kali yuga" religion is mostly Putanas' Blood drinking demons which drain the life force of the soul in the guise of mercy....(-this is coming from Prabhupadas' Guru -not david icke!)
And if you want to know why prabhupada & all the Gaudia gurus speak against inpersonal liberation...Its' because it is a dogmatic belief system based on blending all the true teachings of the saints into a new age mishmash that deprives the soul of its' inherent right to experience transcendental love and bliss!!!!
I humbly ask you to now.... get off your computer into the forest & bow down in the humble recognition that you are NOT
the surpreme controler, but a conditioned soul suffering & enjoying in a unstable world full of exploitation & few true sadhus!
Ask for lord Nityananda to give you taste for chanting and pray to be absolved of your arrogance!!!
The chanting of the holy names is the medicine for all humanity and just because of modern cults of ignorance get twisted in repression and obsession over the maya shakti does not take away from the unsurmountable love of the 'all compassionate goddess" srimati Radharani...
Namaste'
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Unsu...
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Sat, January 13, 2007 - 3:17 AMJai Ho, Hare Krishna.
I totally agree with you.
-
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Thu, January 25, 2007 - 9:48 PM"leaving Krishna Consciousness."
Please accept my Dandavat Pranams
All glories to Srila Gurudeva and Srila Prabhupada
All glories to Sri Sri Radha Vinode Bihariji
Dear Prabhus,
First we must understand this statement from Srila Prabhupada.
"Those who think that Krsna consciousness is limited to a certain section
of people, a certain section of devotees or a certain tract of land are
generally prone to see the external features of the devotee. Such
neophytes, unable to appreciate the exalted service of the advanced
devotee, try to bring the maha-bhagavata to their platform."
TEXT SIX purport The Nectar of Instruction
You should also consider, if Srila Prabhupada was poisoned (and I know He was) and the same leaders and GBC who were involved in child abuse and its cover up are still managers, "gurus" , etc... There would be no question of leaving "Krishna Consciousness."
Rather I would like to believe that some of those "leaving" had gained enough sukriti by reading Srila Prabhupada's books and serving Him sincerely with love and affection that they were beginning to seek out sadhu sanga.
your servant
Isa das -
-
Unsu...
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Fri, January 26, 2007 - 12:33 PMYes Isa das, thank you for chiming in!!! Although I didn't know all of these things, hearing now from an extremely reliable source, I, myself, accept what you have to say.
ISCKON holds such a special place in our hearts as devotees. But we can rest assurred, Krsna-consciousness has never been about the establishment. Just when a jiva thinks they understand God, the rules change. Krsna is beyond elusive, and he wants us to expand our minds into eternal consciousness, which scares people because it hurts a little to evolve. ISCKON to me is a world filled with devotees, not a system of beauracracy, duh. We ALL are Srila Prabhupadas disciples. There's no question of leaving ISKCON if someone is chanting and remembering, especially in the association of other devotees, especially if they are under the guidance of a self-realized soul.
Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada did whatever he had to do to bring us the Krsnas feet, in a framework that would be understandable for us. We understand organized religion. No harm, if the structure changes. -
-
Unsu...
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Fri, January 26, 2007 - 2:55 PMFunny, but I always wondered why Srila Prabhupada wrote down the seven reasons or so why he started the society. Now I see why, to give it some format, one of which was to make a place for the association of devotees. I don't feel that Prabhupada was poisoned, but even if two or three demons did poison him that does not mean that not even one of his disciples are good. All it takes are one or two good devotees to keep the movement going, and maybe someone who wasn't even in Vrndavana at the time Prabhupada left the planet will turn out being one of the good ones. -
-
Unsu...
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Fri, January 26, 2007 - 9:27 PMi think my point was, hey, the disciples are good, very good. Someone may have done something wrong somewhere along the line, but we surely wouldn't want to lump any of the devotees with them. ISCKON is wonderful to me, I don't know the history so well, i'm pretty new still, but I appreciate everything they've done for the world and beyond. At the same time, It's not ABOUT the institution. It's about hari-nama, sad-guru, sadhu-sanga, basically practicing Bhakti, the kind. It's about Srila Prabhupadas message to the world. Its about being in the line of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Prabhupada. -
-
Unsu...
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Sat, January 27, 2007 - 11:45 AMFor me ISKCON is about Srila Prabhupada, and how out of all of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati's disciples he was and still is and forever shall be light years ahead of all of them as far as spiritual advancement goes. ISKCON is more than just an institution, it is an incarnation of Srila Prabhupada and a branch of the tree of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. -
-
Unsu...
Re: Beware of the repercussions for leaving Krishna Consciousness.
Sat, January 27, 2007 - 6:16 PMThats the beauty of it, that all the Krsna conscious people around the world agree on that simple thing. I agree that ISCKON is something Prabhupada gave to us, to all his disciples and grand disciples. If it werent for him none of us would be exposed to Sri Hari-nama. Thank you for glorifying our Srila Prabhupada.
-
-
-
-
-
