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Okay, so I went to my first temple festival yesterday and had a blast. I will defintly be going again next weekend. I spent most of today reading up on the Hare Krishna principles and practice. I was just wondering what devotees of Krishna thought about homosexuality ? Being a Homosexual I don't want to take part in any sort of faith that excludes my people and my personal beliefs to that extent. Any information on this would be helpful.
Hare Krishna
S
Hare Krishna
S
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Re: Homosexuality
Mon, April 11, 2005 - 6:05 PMwell, i am glad i am the first one to answer this question, because u are bound to get various answers. but just know that the sankirtan movement of sri krsna chaitanya mahaprabhu is for ALL people, regardless of gender, age, caste, creed, colour or sexual orientation. krsna consciousness is a process, to free ourselves from the desires that keep us away from krsna. now although illicit sexual behaviour is discouraged (especially for those of us that have taken vows) it is still a process. now some devotees might show u all the places where it is written that its wrong etc, stay away from them. and there are those that will show u evidence that this has existed since time immemorial.
prabhupada initiated devotees he knew were gay and was ESPECIALLY kind to them. he treated allen ginsberg (50's-60's poet and gay) and his partner with the utmost respect and grace. may all of his followers do the same with ppl of all persuasions. -
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Re: Homosexuality
Tue, April 12, 2005 - 12:01 PMThank you for your insight. This is pretty much how I thought it was but I wanted to hear it from someone with experience who has been practicing for awhile.
Hare Krishna
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Re: Homosexuality
Tue, April 12, 2005 - 12:28 PMKrsna does not care what u look ,what u wear.He cares only what ur heart is looking for devotion to Him. -
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Re: Homosexuality
Sat, May 21, 2005 - 12:36 PMa little late in the game but better late than never:
www.galva108.org/
www.nine9.ukshells.co.uk/cgi-b...idx.pl
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Re: Homosexuality
Sun, June 12, 2005 - 8:39 AMYou might like to read "Revolutionary Psychology."
You can download it for free here --
www.gnosticweb.com/document...ology.pdf
The free Astral Travel and Searching Within courses will be most beneficial as well.
Take care,
Denny -
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Re: Homosexuality
Thu, January 19, 2006 - 6:16 PMWhy different opinions? There is only one. We ALL can practice Krishna consciousness. The same principles are there to follow both positive (like chanting)and the negative ones we have to omit(like meat-eating, etc.). -
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Unsu...
Re: Homosexuality
Fri, February 10, 2006 - 4:27 AMI'm practising celebacy too
(not doing too good, but not too bad.....)
Its a strange world in the root chakra
you want too, but you don't.....
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Re: Homosexuality
Mon, May 8, 2006 - 5:42 PMWell Real devotees of Krsna do not think about sexuality at all. They are always absorbed in Krsna seva and remembrance.
But as for us aspiring devotees, sexuality is no barrier in taking up bhakti-yoga. -
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Re: Homosexuality
Fri, May 19, 2006 - 10:17 AMIts really nice to see all the kind and thoughtful posts here. My Guru Maharaj said: "The man is as great as his ideal" If the ideal is great, high and holy, then the man is also great. We all have a gap between our aspiration and our current level of development. However that should never deter us in our aspiration for a higher type of life. It is this very hankering and aspiration that is our wealth and draws us up towards Transcendental life. The regulative principles are not absolute in themselves but are adjuncts meant to bring us to sattva-guna (the mode of goodness) from where we can gain perspective on higher transcendental truths. Passion (sexuality) and ignorance (intoxication) tend to cover and throw our consciousness downwards away from illumination. Krsna Consciousness is of course suddha-sattva (transcendental goodness and above the modes of nature) When we serve the devotees (and especially higher devotees ie: Gurudeva) we are drawn up in that current of service and eventually released from the anarthas (unnecessary habits). By sincere service our hearts unfold and we become freed from the misconceptions of body and the labels associated with it like: man, woman, black, white, good, evil, high, low, gay, straight, pious, crimminal etc. The body is the biological expression of the souls misconception. When the soul is properly adjusted in its conception everything else (mind and senses) follows naturally.
Chaitanya Mahaprabhu says in the first verse of His Shikshastakam (8 instructions) ceto darpanam marjanam...by chanting the Holy Names our consciousness begins to clear. The mind is like a mirror covered by the dust of material misconceptions. The Holy Names wipe it clean and extinguish the burning fire of material desire. bhava maha dwagni nirvapalam. Then the Holy Name, like a cooling benedictine moon shines its Divine Rays into our hearts and the heart chakra blooms in the nectar of the Holy Name...sherya kerava chandrika vitaranyam vidya vadhu jivanam. Our consciousness and life as a whole become transformed from the inside out. Our conscious paradigm of life does a revolution from the misconception of gross materialism to the beauty of Divine transcendental Reality.
As soon as we turn our hearts towards Krsna's devotees our great spiritual fortune begins. Lord Chaitanya also quoted the Srimad Bhagavatam verse 10.14.3 from the prayers of Lord Brahma where He says: stane sthitah sruti gatam tanu van monobir..."from whatever position you are currently situated by your past karma, begin hearing from the devotees of Krsna" From this alone the unconquerable (Krsna the Infinite Reality) becomes conquered. When Chaitanya deva chanted in the forest of Jarikhanda even the animals responded because thier hearts were touched by the power and potency of Lord Chaitanya's transcendental chanting.
Bottom line: Krsna Consciousness is for everyone regardless of gender, species, economics, nationality, religion, morality or any other material consideration. It repesents the highest spiritual fortune of Divine Love which is the only real wealth of our souls, and what everyone is searching for. ras-anandam. -
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Re: Homosexuality
Fri, May 19, 2006 - 8:31 PMi think this is one of the best and intelligently put KC posts i have ever read. thank u maturanath prabhu. inclusivism. this is the way.
my obeisances.
manu dasa
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Re: Homosexuality
Sat, May 20, 2006 - 10:11 AMThe reason you may get different responses in relation to this is that the Srimad Bhagavatam sets a very high standard as the ideal of human behavior. That being that we are the soul within the body and that any activity that is based on bodily identification is to be given up and replaced with service to Krsna. Srila Prabhupada set up some observances in this regard which the devotees know as the regulative priniciples. These observaces aid one in their spiritual life. They are 1. no meat eating 2. no illicit sex 3. no intoxication and 4. no gambling. I know one of the things that impressed me about Srila Prabhupada when I first came in contact with his teachings was that he was giving very specific directions on how one could make progress in spiritual life and that included things to not do. For example no one else at the time was telling me no intoxication, even though society at large is quite familiar with the downsides that intoxication causes. Krsna consciousness is meant for everyone, and to the degree one can bring his life in line with these principles, Krsna will reciprocate. Srila Prabhupada explains in the Srimad Bhagavatam: (First Canto chapter 17)
TEXT 24
TEXT
tapah saucam daya satyam
iti padah krte krtah
adharmamsais trayo bhagnah
smaya-sanga-madais tava
SYNONYMS
tapah--austerity; saucam--cleanliness; daya--mercy; satyam--truthfulness; iti--thus; padah--legs; krte--in the age of Satya; krtah--established; adharma--irreligiosity; amsaih--by the parts; trayah--three combined; bhagnah--broken; smaya--pride; sanga--too much association with women; madaih--intoxication; tava--your.
TRANSLATION
In the age of Satya [truthfulness] your four legs were established by the four principles of austerity, cleanliness, mercy and truthfulness. But it appears that three of your legs are broken due to rampant irreligion in the form of pride, lust for women, and intoxication.
PURPORT
The deluding energy, or material nature, can act upon the living beings proportionately in terms of the living beings' falling prey to the deluding attraction of maya. Moths are captivated by the glaring brightness of light, and thus they become prey to the fire. Similarly, the deluding energy is always captivating the conditioned souls to become prey to the fire of delusion, and the Vedic scriptures warn the conditioned souls not to become prey to delusion but to get rid of it. The Vedas warn us to go not to the darkness of ignorance but to the progressive path of light. The Lord Himself also warns that the deluding power of material energy is too powerful to overcome, but one who completely surrenders unto the Lord can easily do so. But to surrender unto the lotus feet of the Lord is also not very easy. Such surrender is possible by persons of austerity, cleanliness, mercy and truthfulness. These four principles of advanced civilization were remarkable features in the age of Satya. In that age, every human being was practically a qualified brahmana of the highest order, and in the social orders of life they were all paramahamsas, or the topmost in the renounced order. By cultural standing, the human beings were not at all subjected to the deluding energy. Such strong men of character were competent enough to get away from the clutches of maya. But gradually, as the basic principles of brahminical culture, namely austerity, cleanliness, mercy and truthfulness, became curtailed by proportionate development of pride, attachment for women and intoxication, the path of salvation or the path of transcendental bliss retreated far, far away from human society. With the progression of the age of Kali, people are becoming very proud, and attached to women and intoxication. By the influence of the age of Kali, even a pauper is proud of his penny, the women are always dressed in an overly attractive fashion to victimize the minds of men, and the man is addicted to drinking wine, smoking, drinking tea and chewing tobacco, etc. All these habits, or so-called advancement of civilization, are the root causes of all irreligiosities, and therefore it is not possible to check corruption, bribery and nepotism. Man cannot check all these evils simply by statutory acts and police vigilance, but he can cure the disease of the mind by the proper medicine, namely advocating the principles of brahminical culture or the principles of austerity, cleanliness, mercy and truthfulness. Modern civilization and economic development are creating a new situation of poverty and scarcity with the result of blackmailing the consumer's commodities. If the leaders and the rich men of the society spend fifty percent of their accumulated wealth mercifully for the misled mass of people and educate them in God consciousness, the knowledge of Bhagavatam, certainly the age of Kali will be defeated in its attempt to entrap the conditioned souls. We must always remember that false pride, or too high an estimation of one's own values of life, undue attachment to women or association with them, and intoxication will divert human civilization from the path of peace, however much the people clamor for peace in the world. The preaching of the Bhagavatam principles will automatically render all men austere, clean both inside and outside, merciful to the suffering, and truthful in daily behavior. That is the way of correcting the flaws of human society, which are very prominently exhibited at the present moment.
TEXT 25
TEXT
idanim dharma padas te
satyam nirvartayed yatah
tam jighrksaty adharmo 'yam
anrtenaidhitah kalih
SYNONYMS
idanim--at the present moment; dharma--O personality of religion; padah--leg; te--of you; satyam--truthfulness; nirvartayet--hobbling along somehow or other; yatah--whereby; tam--that; jighrksati--trying to destroy; adharmah--the personality of irreligion; ayam--this; anrtena--by deceit; edhitah--flourishing; kalih--quarrel personified.
TRANSLATION
You are now standing on one leg only, which is your truthfulness, and you are somehow or other hobbling along. But quarrel personified [Kali], flourishing by deceit, is also trying to destroy that leg.
PURPORT
The principles of religion do not stand on some dogmas or man-made formulas, but they stand on four primary regulative observances, namely austerity, cleanliness, mercy and truthfulness. The mass of people must be taught to practice these principles from childhood. Austerity means to accept voluntarily things which may not be very comfortable for the body but are conducive for spiritual realization, for example, fasting. Fasting twice or four times a month is a sort of austerity which may be voluntarily accepted for spiritual realization only, and not for any other purposes, political or otherwise. Fastings which are meant not for self-realization but for some other purposes are condemned in the Bhagavad-gita (17.5-6). Similarly, cleanliness is necessary both for the mind and for the body. Simply bodily cleanliness may help to some extent, but cleanliness of the mind is necessary, and it is effected by glorifying the Supreme Lord. No one can cleanse the accumulated mental dust without glorifying the Supreme Lord. A godless civilization cannot cleanse the mind because it has no idea of God, and for this simple reason people under such a civilization cannot have good qualifications, however they may be materially equipped. We have to see things by their resultant action. The resultant action of human civilization in the age of Kali is dissatisfaction, so everyone is anxious to get peace of mind. This peace of mind was complete in the Satya age because of the existence of the above-mentioned attributes of the human beings. Gradually these attributes have diminished in the Treta-yuga to three fourths, in the Dvapara to half, and in this age of Kali to one fourth, which is also gradually diminishing on account of prevailing untruthfulness. By pride, either artificial or real, the resultant action of austerity is spoiled; by too much affection for female association, cleanliness is spoiled; by too much addiction to intoxication, mercy is spoiled; and by too much lying propaganda, truthfulness is spoiled. The revival of bhagavata-dharma can save human civilization from falling prey to evils of all description.
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Re: Homosexuality
Sat, May 20, 2006 - 10:34 AMTo explain a little bit about the context of the verses above, after the battle of Kurukshetra Maharaja Pariksit became king of the world. Once when he was travelling he saw the master of Kali yuga hurting the legs of a cow and a bull. The cow was mother earth and the bull was Dharma, or personified religious principles. Pariksit immediately challenged Kali yuga personified. When he saw Pariksit ready to kill him Kali yuga surrendered to Pariksit and said "Don't kill me please". Kali asked Pariksit to fix some places for him where he could live under Pariksit's protection. Pariksit gave him permission to reside where these 4 regulative principles were not observed, and also where gold is. The verses above come from the middle of this story. The conclusion of the story is that if one can observe the 4 regulative principles he can become free from the ill inluences of this age of Kali. -
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Re: Homosexuality
Sat, May 20, 2006 - 12:34 PMIt might be more clear to state that it is not the mechanical observance of the regulative principles that release us from the influence of the age of Kali, but that when Krsna sees that we are sincere in our self sacrifice and surrender for His pleasure He then may Grace us to be free from the influence of Kali Yuga. Everything comes from up to down.
daivi hy esa guna mayi
mama maya duratyaya
mam eva ye prapadyante
mayam etam taranti te
"This divine energy of mine, consisting of the three modes of nature is very difficult to overcome, but those who surrender unto Me can easily over come it." Bgita 7.14
If its Krsna's desire that we are not yet released from anarthas then we will have to patiently await His Grace. Its not actually dependant upon our will or strength. But the power of our surrender. The internal struggles that we undergo as a result of our battle with our anarthas will bring about our purification in the end if we are actually sincere.
Srila Rupa Goswami composed a very beautiful verse that gives us much hope, its recorded in the prapanna-jivanamrtam 9.43 : labdha-shuddha-bhakti-bijasya...
"For one who receives the seed of devotion, who is selfless and penitent, denouncing his inability to abandon mundane enjoyment despite realizing it to be the embodiment of suffering, and who sincerely gives himself incessantly to the practices of devotion- in the heart of such a devotee, the Supreme Lord ascends like the rising sun to annihilate all ignorance with its reactions, revealing His Divine personality in all its pristine glory."
Spiritual life is ALWAYS about relationship (rasa) not merely methodology (sadhana) Though generally vaishnavas follow regulative principles His agents and associates can and do act independent of the regulative priciples as service necessitates. Srila Prabhupad kept his Bhogha in the refrigerator with the meat of his hosts when he first arrived in America. Yet he was unaffected. Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur prepared Ganja (marijuana) with his own hands for the cooks at the Yoga-pith (birthplace of Mahaprabhu) otherwise they would not do the seva. Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakur seriously considered serving meat preparations for the western guests at a Gaudiya Math function. My Guru Maharaj protested, But Saraswati Thakur defended saying: "I've considered this millions of lifetimes ago." The point is that the principles are guidlines and not absolute in themselves and that Krsna can act as He likes and that also the revelation can transcend the capacity of the agent, as in the case of Srila Prabhupads disciples and the miracles they achieved in speading Krsna Consciousness despite thier immaturity. Also there is the example of Vyasa...vyaso veti no veti va....Vyasa did not even understand everything that was revealed through him. When he heard Srimad Bhagavatam recited by his son Sukadeva Goswami to Parishit Maharaj, Vyasadeva heard new revelations that he had not himself understood when he was composing Srimad Bhagavatam. Another case is that of the prositute Chintamini whose words changed the life and consciousness of the great saint Bilvamangal Thakur. He was habituated to enjoying illicit sex with her and after great hardship one stormy night he came to her and she remarked, "If you loved Krsna as much as me , you would be a great saint" It hit him like a thunderbolt on his head and he recognized that it was his Gurudeva speaking to him through her. Bilvamangar Thakur could have told her, "you are just a prostitute, what do you know, you're not following the regulative principles." But fortunately he was able to recognize Divine Substance in her words- the revelation or current of guru-tattva that came though her- an apparently unclean agent transcended her capacity. However the message was straight from the transcendental world. And it changed his life, and we are the better for it.
When the swarup-shakti descends upon us by Krsnas' Grace our souls will be enriched beyond our personal capacity.
ananyas chintayanto mam
ye janah paryupasate
tesam nityabhiyuktanam
yoga ksemam vahamy aham
" but those who worship Me with devotion meditating on My transcendental form- to them I carry what they lack and preserve what they have." Bgita 9.22
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